I think this is something we are not talking about enough on the forum - how our experience of drinking changes dramatically for the good after we begin taking naltrexone. We all tend to focus on our weekly units, but that is really only a small part of the story as we practice TSM.

Tom put it very, very well. For some reason, even when we're still drinking far above 'normal' limits, we don't have the same experiences and feelings we had as when we drank before taking naltrexone. Most of us no longer pass out or have black outs after beginning the program. We are much more able to carry on intelligent conversations, and can even recall those conversations the next day. We suffer fewer, and less severe, hangovers. We're less likely to trip and fall. My BF tells me I no longer get repetitive in my speech, as I evidently used to do. Those who were prone to committing DUI (dialing under the influence), or e-mailing old boyfriends, are more in control of themselves.

Even though we can still definitely get a buzz, it's almost as though the 'drunk' has left the 'drink.' Very, very cool.

Hi G4M,

I truly wish that I could share such sentiments with you. Unfortunately, as you know, there are a few of us that have not noticed any changes, let alone dramatic changes, since we started taking naltrexone. Furthermore, I am now faced with the prospect of withdrawing from a benzodiazepine based on recent information from Dr Eskapa.

I should point out that I'm not just talking about units of alcohol that I am currently consuming when I say I have not noticed any changes. My drinking patterns have not changed and I don't feel any different either since starting on naltrexone.

Having said all that, I'm not a quitter and I fully intend to stay with this method for as long as it takes. I'm looking forward to the day when I'll be able to share your sentiments. In the meantime, I remain hopeful that that day will come.

V.

Tom, I just wanted you to know that I think what you said here is a PERFECT formula for success with TSM. I even copied it to my document that contains inspirational material to keep me motivated. Thanks for sharing this!

Tom,

I also really appreciated your post, and thought it was pretty funny too. Not since I was a young'un have I walked into a bar with the intention of getting, well, you described it perfectly. If we already HAD control, we wouldn't have a problem. Or if we did have a problem, we could use our control to simply quit drinking.

And Bob, I liked the bit about the spiritual rats. An excellent point, and well made.

I'm a HUGE believer in spiritualism, as well as self-healing. I understand the psycho-somatic nature of most illness, and I've been using these principles my whole life, with great success in all areas . . . with one notable exception.

Understanding the true nature of my alcohol addiction has allowed me to stop beating myself up and really start healing. Naltrexone and TSM have this possible for me in a way that it really wasn't before. And for me, it is working, albeit slowly, and sometimes bumpily. Moreover, I can see the same things happening to my new found friends here on this board. It's really quite astounding. It is, in a way, magical.

Jim,

Magic comes in many forms, my friend, to many different people. I think you meant well with your comments, and you definitely sparked off a spirited and fruitful discussion. But when you disrespect another person's magic, you come off as sounding like you are coming from a place of ignorance. And I think maybe you hurt a few feelings as well.

One of my best friends is a 25 year successful AA'er. I respect what worked for him, and we talk a lot about spiritual growth, honesty, responsibility, purposeful living, and many other related things. He's right on in every regard, and I've learned volumes from him, however none of those things was going to make me give up drinking, because the part of my brain that is always growing as a spiritual entity is different from the part that wants a shot of tequila.

Spiritualism is a strong hammer that hits the nail on the head every time, but it takes a screwdriver to unscrew the screw that has been screwing me all this time. So you use your tool, and I'll use mine.

Best of success to everyone here, and kudos to a bunch of alkies for being able to carry on an intelligent and enlightening discussion.

Fire

It doesn't sound like he has.

Ditto, Virgil and Firebird glad you see that we are not all the same here. Some of us are having a rougher time than others it seems! That old saying "Walk a mile in my shoes" comes to mind.

Interesting post and reactions...I personally have no doubt the post was not intended to be anything but judgemental. Quite a testament to the gracious users here for trying to read it in the best possible light. (Anytime I hear / read someone say, 'I don't mean to be judgemental' I immediately think, 'ah..but you must see, that's exactly what you are being.')

This post, however, coupled with one from Camelia and one from Dr. Roy, have really made me think.

I am on Week 13 this week...for me it is a life-altering treatment. Which is much more to me than a magic pill...but yes, there are questions swarming around in my head this week. Should I start putting efffort into this? Should I start trying for selective extinction this weekend - stay off the Nal and do some positive activities? When I think that, I immediately have this little nagging thought, "but, I'd really like to have a glass of wine tonight!" So, that's causing me some concern. It's still there - is it habit at this point? I can easily stop at 1 or 2 glasses at this point (although I had several 6 unit nights last weekend). But - that thought is still there. Perhaps the selective extinction will provide a different habit to look forward to. My way to relax is to sit there each night and drink wine and watch TV. Should I push myself to become a better human being and get up off the couch? With that thought still there, it's very easy to lull myself into thinking I better extinguish it with "wine + nal". What a pain it is to be a human instead of a rat.

LaBear & Virgil - my heart goes out to you both. Easy for me to say this will work, hang in there, but I'm sure you feel anything but that sentiment. I will say, I hope it does work and that it is just taking a bit longer for the benzo users on this board. It must be frustrating, but if you can continue on I know your stories will be a huge help to the future benzo users that will join us down the line. And you will hopefully also find success.

All,

There has been a debate raging in my head ever since I read Jim's first post. How should I respond - subtley or directly ? My first post was the sublte one. Here's the direct one. There are many forces in the world that want TSM to fail. There are organizations that get millions of dollars based on the 12 step, don't drink for life model. There are hundreds of thousands of people who base their entire life on being saved by God. That is great for those people but not for me. However, that is not good enough for them. They feel they have to to save me too, that their way is the true way and that there can be no other way. I do not want to be saved, I want to drink and enjoy alochol like I once did.
In over 15 or so years of going to AA meetings, I often heard that "...even if there was a magic pill, I wouldn't drink again..". That's how I knew that Jim's post was disingenuous. TSM is science, not magic. If you want magic, Jim, find a church basement.

I am sure I PO'd a few of you, but that's just my 2 cents.

Best Regards to all
Tom

Pre: 46 – 80+ units
Wk/Units/Craving
1: ...44 .....10
2: .. 40......10..2 AF
3: ...40......9...3 AF
4: ...31......9...4 AF
5: ...20......7...5 AF
6...In progress

Right on, Tom. I doubt you've pissed off anyone. We have grown thick skins as we have circled the wagons but it's nice to hear someone speak the truth to power; it's what most of us have been thinking.

mclanet0326 - I have to admit that your post is quite logical and compelling... something Dr. Sinclair's rats would likely agree with if they were designed to be sentient enough to speak. The rats were unlikely saved by god, not that he couldn't have if he had wanted to...

Bob