Dear god, the condescension!


So, Sober is just not ready to really recover, and this person approves of her "stepping stone." Didn't most of us already "fully dive" into abstinence and AA at some point? I think for me it was between my first and second drunk driving arrest.

I like how this one got it exactly backwards:

I am just going to keep posting my progress. I haven't even tried to consciously cut down yet. This was all due to The Sinclair Method. Just wait til I actually do try to cut down. I haven't aimed for any particular limit, but I bet I can. And that is nothing short of a miracle for me. For now, I'm just following the golden rule.

In the end, it's helping me and it's more than I ever could have asked for. If people don't want to listen, I guess that's their choice. But I'd take condescending attitudes from the recovery community any day over the hell I was living in before the Sinclair Method!

I'll take my magic pills, thank you!

I joined in on the fun over there. I just can't help it.

That is totally understandable, Magda.

I appreciate you trying to help back me a little over there, but all your stuff was deleted. I'm starting to feel pretty unwelcome. I think I'm going to stop looking at anyone's comments there. I'll just post my progress and run. I was really happy and proud of myself, but I find I'm starting to get upset just because of some anonymous people on the internet. Let them have their abstinence and AA circle-jerk. I just don't fit in there and it's not worth hurting my recovery.

Hmm. I can still see it.


I get that, but I enjoy poking them. It wouldn't matter if you were abstinent, by the by. You have to be abstinent and have had a spiritual experience (whatever that means) and be working a program to even begin to call yourself successful. It's bollocks.

Even if you drank a gallon of Everclear a day for twenty years and have abstained for five, they'll say either that you weren't a real alcoholic, that you're a "dry drunk," or that you are about to relapse. Can't win.

I followed your link. My first exposure to reddit ... kind of a tough crowd over there! You're doing great, Sober; keep fighting the good fight. I'm with you: 5 or 6 in a day is a huge improvement over 10+ (and I was definitely drinking in that range when I started). Yesterday I came in at 5.5 and I think actually experienced my first taste of real indifference. Partner was still popping beers after dinner when I realized I just didn't want any more and switched to kombucha. I'll call that a victory.

I wish TSM were working faster than it is, because I'm impatient, but as we're often reminded, some of us have more "unlearning" to do than others. Congrats again on your progress!

I know what you mean about AA. Although it has helped several members of my family, it never resonated with me. My dad has been sober for almost 40 years, and he still attends meetings and calls himself an alcoholic. He is well know and respected within the AA community in our town. It's great that AA has helped him, but it isn't for everyone, and I hate how he smugly criticizes other problem drinkers who don't subscribe to the AA dogma. "She hasn't hit her bottom" (uh, this is her fourth DUI and her husband has left her and taken the kids…doesn't get much worse); "he's in denial" (no, maybe he really has gotten his drinking under control without the help of AA); and, my personal favorite, "has she been going to meetings?" (as if AA meetings are the cure for whatever ails you). Sorry if I sound bitter, but I've tried their program, and it made me want to drink more than ever!!

My brother is getting out of rehab today after 6 months. This is his third trip to rehab, btw, but this one was court mandated (he stole a bottle of vodka from a liquor store), so he was forced to stay the entire time. I'm so terrified for him. He has never been able to stick with AA in the past, and he and I are very much alike. Between his second stint and rehab and his arrest, I flew out West to try to help him. One of his friends called to tell me that if someone didn't come soon to take him home, he would probably be dead in a month. We had no idea how bad he was (we live on the East Coast). When I got to his place, I couldn't believe the way he was "living." It was truly heartbreaking. Of course, my dad told me to take him to a meeting. Well, he was too drunk to get out of his bed, which was soaked with piss and vomit, so that was out. When I mentioned that perhaps we should try something other than AA, he went nuts.

Keep in mind that no one in my family (except for my husband) is aware of my excessive drinking. I've been lucky: I've never been arrested or injured, I'm able to hold down a demanding and well paying job, and I'm happily married. I suppose I'm what's called a high functioning alcoholic. I drink only at home, only wine, and only after 5:00 p.m., usually when my kids are in bed. I've never gotten behind the wheel. I never miss work, etc. I've never felt comfortable sharing my problem with my family because of their AA obsession. Plus, as the eldest, I'm viewed as the responsible one, the smart one who always "takes care of things."

My dilemma: I truly hope my brother doesn't relapse, but, given all the research out there, I can't help thinking that he will. I hate to see him suffer, and I know trying to remain sober will be extremely hard for him. I'd like to tell my brother about TSM, but I know the kind of reaction I'm going to get for even suggesting such a thing. My family will disown me; I'm not being dramatic. I suppose all I can do is hope for the best and find comfort in the fact that TSM has helped me and hopefully will help him, if he needs it.

Sorry for making this post all about me … I just want you to know that I understand where you are coming from, and I admire your courage to stand up to them and say you're going a different route. Good luck to you. You're doing great!

There are some naltrexone friendly treatment centers, I know there's one in Florida. Those may be worth a shot.

I doubt dad would agree with that according to what you say. From what I've encountered elsewhere, 12 stepping folks view the Sinclair method and naltrexone as sheer madness and self-delusion.

Which is unfortunate, because it is truly helpful for many

I'm so sorry to hear of your brother's suffering. Dr. Eskapa notes repeatedly in his book that one of the reasons TSM is not more widely known/practiced is because most physicians would consider it unethical to advise an alcoholic patient to keep drinking. I think toward the end he suggests doctors who want to consider TSM but proceed ethically to say something like, "You need to stay sober, but if you know you're about to relapse and there's no avoiding it, here's the protocol ..." Of course it's hard to decide whether that constitutes offering a lifeline, or what the drinker might perceive as "permission."

I can only share my own experience as a chronic relapser: I was sober for 5 months last year before I picked up again, and I drank more or less normally for about 6 months before my consumption shot back up. Based on how I react to alcohol on Nal, I suspect that if I'd followed the Golden Rule during those first months of relapse, I could have kept my drinking at reasonable levels, or maybe even decided I just didn't like it anymore. If only I'd known ...