You are right. There are so few people on this board in general, and right now two different people are trying this.

Someone with long experience would be the best candidate. UKBlonde, are you out there?

Thanks for that sideeffect2. I did what you said and it made an impression on me!

Yep, the concepts are simple and clear. Its what kept me from fudging on the rules too.

IMHO, I think that concept explains many people's struggles with tsm. You fudge on the rules here and there, and you are now looking at intermittent reinforcement which has a whole different set of rules.

Melissa,
Actually, no, I didn't really try intermittent Naltrexone use in any real sense (1.5 pills in 6 months!). Last night, enjoyed two drinks, didn't have cravings for any more. That's now 10 days since I've taken 1/2 a pill, and I'm down to 4 or so drinks a week. Why would I want to do this, you ask? Because Naltrexone makes me feel like crap for 22 hours, and I want to feel good.

I get the whole intermittent reinforcement argument, and it's a good one. I guess, in my back pocket, I'm holding onto the idea that, for me at least, I can always smack down drinking with Naltrexone if I have to. That is, if I got really, really bad again, I could simply take Naltreonxe before drinking every time. I've never ONE TIME got anywhere near drunk when taking Naltrexone. It shuts me down fast. It's sort of an Antabuse-ish drug for me at this point.

I understand this even although I've only been on NAL for 2 weeks. I couldn't get drunk if I tried! It just puts me off, and also disperses my obsession with my daily, where to buy and what to buy from the minute I wake. Also I am able to buy more than my consumption for the day, and NOT drink it all! Very weird, but good.

There is a grieving process that I think we go through after accepting that we arent going to be normal drinkers.

Barry: how does this fit into your "male action plan" that you mentioned on your first post. Is playing with fire helping you further your goals?

Yes, good. That's how it's supposed to work.

Everybody loves The Cure for Alcoholism in general, but it has a few things to answer for. One is the idea that we'll be able to "enjoy" a few drinks on nal. We can drink them, but we will not enjoy them in the previous sense. Relaxed? Sure. Sedated? It can happen. Warm, euphoric glow? Not a chance. People determined to enjoy alcohol are going to end up drinking without nal.

I suppose this is marketing. People are more likely to try it if they think they can become normal drinkers with the help of a pill. It's maybe not a bad idea -- one study showed that only 1-2% of problem drinkers had abstinence as an initial goal, and more switched to abstinence only once the addiction was broken and abstinence seemed possible.

At some point, we all have to face the fact that we cannot safely have that lovely glow. We can abstain, we can drink on nal, or we can slide back into addiction. That's pretty much it.

I guess I can see why this isn't more widely bruited about. Fewer people would consider TSM if they knew that.

And, yes, there's grief. Maybe even a "five stages of grief" process of acceptance. Denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance. The pitch appeals to some people's denial -- "you can still drink!" Then we try it, and are frustrated and furious. We "bargain" by screwing around with it -- what if I don't wait an hour so I can still enjoy the first ones? what if I don't take nal but limit myself to two drinks?

Most of us have done some of this screwing around. I know I did. At some point, though, we either punch through the sadness of loss and get to acceptance or just slip right back into serious drinking.

Welcome back, Barry, and thanks for the update on your situation. It's a bit off-topic, but about 5 years ago I went through a similar Man-crisis or whatever where I found myself in a position like the one you describe. I think drunks are pretty much destined to find themselves there, eventually... Unless they are literally kings and can have people beheaded. My particular flavor of alcoholism left me, often times, as helpless and needy as a small child, and made me have wild emotional outbursts at inappropriate times, when someone "upset" me. There isn't much there for anyone woman to find remotely attractive. Yikes, those are painful memories, but I am glad that you brought them up. Reminds me, when I am still over-imbibing on occasion, that I have come quite far.

I remain eternally jealous of you. I have been on nal for coming up on 2 years, and by the numbers, I am still worse at times than you were even during your time off of the system. It's funny when people say that they wish they could return to a time when they had control of their drinking. I was a binge drinker from the first time the 40-O of King Cobra hit my lips. Certainly I didn't binge drink every single time I drank, and my drinking absolutely got progressively worse over the years, but for me, without nal, I have never had a drink that didn't make me want another one, and I know that I never will. I'm a serious drunk, who very likely would have died in an alcohol related fashion if it weren't for this pill.

To the people criticizing Barry's "hop-on, hop-off" approach to taking nal, I think it's probably more healthy to just realize that a method like that would never work for us. Barry can take literally a pill or two and achieve a total cure to whatever drinking problems he experiences. I heard some people asking if he is just doing it to get the old rush a few times... The answer, of course, is "who cares?" If you have a magic bullet in your back pocket, slipping off the system is apparently no danger at all. Ironically, I don't miss the rush AT ALL. The rush is so inextricably commingled with the memory of the profound changes I used to experience in my personality, the near-immediate craving for MORE MORE MORE, and the abject shame that I felt the day after a binge as I tried to piece the night back together from what memories I had, paired with the things my wife was mad at me about. So I don't personally miss the rush one bit. Am I horribly jealous that it works so well for Barry? You bet your ass I am. Do I begrudge him for it? Heck no. The only danger would be if I allowed myself to believe for one second that system like Barry's would work for me. Nal isn't a magic bullet for me. It's a slowly moving barge, heading up a river. If I hop off, I can't hop back on at the same spot, I get swept away in the current.

Anyway, welcome back Barry. I look forward to hearing about your progress with alcohol and your progress in improving the way your wife and kids see you

Barry: how does this fit into your "male action plan" that you mentioned on your first post. Is playing with fire helping you further your goals?

Do I detect some sarcasm there? I do appreciate the sentiment, though, and will take it to heart. To be honest, drinking even 2 drinks three times a week does more harm than good in terms of the self-improvement, namely because (a) I don't ever exercise after I've had anything to drink, (b) given my extreme sleep deprivation (3-4 nights a week I get zero sleep), 1-3 drinks can either stabilize me and make me feel "normal" and pleasant (alcohol has a paradoxical stimulant effect which counters the effects of sleep deprivation) or can destabilize my mood and make me hyper-irritable, and (c) give me some ED which makes me less than a champ in bed (when it even happens ). As I mentioned in my victory post, the night shift thing is what really sent me over the edge in drinking. I have taken steps to get off nights and still make good $$$ (three year long health admin degree); my goal is going to days + 1 night starting in June. This is all related to four kids and a professional wife with little flexibilty at her job. I've already taken a big step by starting at my "goal hospital" in a supervisory / managerial position (House Supervisor), but it's currently at night, too, due to my circumstances.

Regarding the type of man I'd ideally like to be, yes, being able to drink lightly to moderately (or, hell, if I want to, heavily at times) without having to take a pill that makes me feel shitty would be best. I have always suffered self-control issues on numerous fronts. I've had good success of late with will power (e.g. porn) and trying to grow more inner strength. Probably a lot of us around here are pretty impulsive and weak. Guilty here.

Regarding generic's "jealousy" sentiment...Honestly, I've always had two things going for me when it came to drinking, and these are both hardwired into me and required no virtue on my part. First, I'm thankfully pretty much a lightweight. I met a guy the other night in the ER who drank 1.5 pints of vodka a day and he was conversing with me with a BAC of .550. I think the few times I've ever had even a pint, I'm vomiting and / or passed out. The highest I've ever blown on my personal breathylyzer is .11 or so. Second, I have a pretty strong self-regulated cut off point, given that I really hate the feeling of being flat-out drunk. Hate it. I'm always seeking to find and maintain the "perfect buzz." That's how my wife could say she had "no idea" that I drank every night off for 8 years!! I probably should never have even told her, as it was just another chink in my armor, but oh well. (I told her after three weeks of TSM as I realized I had FINALLY stumbled onto something that would break my cycle). My point being, if there's a difference between an Alcoholic and an alcoholic, I'm the "little a" type. Again, no virtue on my part, just the luck of the draw.

Anyway, that's for the contrarian views. Keep them coming!

"The answer, of course, is "who cares?" If you have a magic bullet in your back pocket, slipping off the system is apparently no danger at all."

Not true. If you know what you need to be doing, and instead squander your time screwing around, chasing a high, thats not no danger.

As to jealousy, I could likely do the same. My cure was 3 pills. I have similar characteristics to barry, moderate drinker, with a strict cutoff (6 beers and im puking). I just accepted my new AF lifestyle as what it is, an unearned, undeserved gift. I treasure it and what it has allowed me to do in a short time.