Last night was the first time drinking with a particular buddy of mine... we often end up both completely wrecked when we drink; we start at home and then go out, and it gets ugly.

He didn't know I was on naltrexone, I didn't mention TSM to him. I lagged behind him in drinks, I'm guessing I had 6 or 7 over the course of 6 hours; at the end of the night I had a full glass that I had no desire to sip from whatsoever. I got tired, basically sent him home. This is a totally different "me". No signs of The Beast at all, no conscious attempt to moderate.

The naltrexone definitely blocks something that would have sent me into a drinking frenzy. It does seem to make drinking less pleasurable... but for the most part I'd describe the sensation as "this is what it would be like to drink like you drink if you weren't addicted: not so much fun... you wouldn't do it".

I'm looking forward to increasing lucidity, the return of my brain cells, and having time to do things that I think are more important. Yesterday I got a piano.

-Ned

Excellent idea Ned. I also started taking piano lessons after starting TSM. You will definitely have a lot more free time on your hands and need to replace your old, unhealthy habit, with new, healthy ones.

Good luck, ned - sounds like you are doing well. Any kind of improvements are good!

Hi Ned -- I'm going to cut-and-past a post I wrote to Maenads on another thread. You're a few days into it, but I think you're still having a "honeymoon effect" that likely will not last. Hope this helps.

Are members -- especially new ones -- reading Eskapa's book? I seem to notice more and more viewing naltrexone as an anti-craving med.

Maenads -- I'm kind of concerned that you seem to think of naltrexone as an anti-craving med; it doesn't work that way. You are experiencing what we have termed the "honeymoon effect."

Here's what Eskapa says: "Be alert that, even very early in your treatment, you may occasionally experience a surprising ability to stop after only a couple of drinks. However, this decrease in drinking and craving is merely an artifact of the treatment. The naltrexone is blocking some of the effects of the first drink and from stimuli that have become conditioned to release endorphins; this helps block the 'first-drink effect.' It is a beneficial but weak effect. The powerful effects from pharmacological extinction develop much more slowly and cannot cure you in a week or two. It took you a long time to reach your current drinking levels, and it will take at least three to four months to reverse the addiction." (pp. 117-118; emphasis his).

My concern is that, as your consumption goes back up, as it has for the vast majority of us, you will be disappointed. Mine shot past pre-tsm levels for a while. Nick describes this as an "extinction burst." Think of the bird, taught through classical conditioning, to receive a pellet of food after pecking a lever. When the pellet one day does not appear, the bird frantically pecks at the lever for a time before abandoning the pecking behavior (i.e. extinction).

Two nice things about the "honeymoon effect": Those who experience it on this board have tended to be the ones more likely to see success on TSM; and, it's a nice glimpse of what the future will be like.

So enjoy it for now, but do remember that it's very likely only temporary.

Ned

Sounds like you are having the same effect I have had...the honeymoon that hasn't ended...I hope it lasts for you...obliterated tolerance is a good feeling.

Crown

Yes, Fingers Crossed!! Crown, I hope you don't think I'm undermining your report of your experience. Some start their downward departure right away, and stay on trajectory. That's certainly you. That's different from the initial, dramatic reduction in consumption followed by a rebound. Not everyone (thankfully) goes back up to pre-TSM levels and beyond.

I think it's so important, in this new method, to honor and validate the experience of everyone who reports. That includes those who beat the odds by coming in under the three-month-minimum (e.g. AJ_) and those who have an immediate reduction and don't go back up (e.g. Crown), those who got cured at six months' time and beyond, and everyone in-between. "Mean" and "Median" are just numbers; we are REAL PEOPLE. We defy generalizations. We celebrate successes.

Tonight was another big test: pool league at the local bar.

The last time I did this, I woke up the next day with a four day hangover and didn't remember getting home, I had only flashes of misadventures I'd rather not recall. This time I'm logging in to TSM before I brush my teeth to report nine drinks over eight hours: a gracious plenty to drink, but significantly better. For sure, I'm not going to wake tomorrow whimpering "what did I do?". That in itself is priceless, and if the whole thing goes no further than this, it makes the entire experiment successful.

Honeymoon Effect: maybe. I figure the long run will speak for itself. Right now I'm not complaining... but I also have baclofen on order. I don't intend to take any unnecessary chances.

My best to all of you who read this from internetland, in the near or distant future. This thing is beatable. My recommendation: Just Do It.

- Ned

I remember paying my bill and leaving the bar last night, even though I stayed until the bitter end. I didn't pass out. I did drink more than I would have wanted to... half that much would have been okay. I was friendly to everybody and have nothing to kick myself about, and told some friends about what I'm doing. But I've got a wicked, debilitating hangover, today has been a total waste. I think there is a bit of hangover enhancement from the naltrexone. I'm looking forward to TSM kicking in a bit more and not having to endure this.

For some reason I feel like mentioning the following, I can't be the only one. When I'm in the grips of a really nasty hangover like this one, with nerves all a-jangle, I blurt out things as if I have Turrette's... "ah f**k" "I'm gonna f***ing die" "Aaah I'm just not doing so well" It happens automatically. I'll catch myself in mid-blurt. When the crazy guy walks by me on the sidewalk yelling to himself, I completely, totally understand it. It goes away once I'm AF for several days and feeling chipper again, but can come back if I happen to remember some particularly embarrassing incident. I've also discovered that often I go berzerk kicking myself over indicents that I don't remember... sometimes there isn't much to kick myself over. The incident that helped me end up here, for instance. Last night I saw the guys that were there, and one said "yeah, you were definitely drunk, but you didn't get out of hand or anything".

took a nal about two hours before drinking yesterday and noticed a headache kick in at about 1 hour, i've definitely got some sides. honeymoon over... drinking steady at about 20 units/week but still pleased that overall i'm much more in control than before. About half of the consumption for these weeks is on tuesday nights, big trigger, I'm going to switch to every-other week for this event.

It is thursday, last time I drank was Saturday, it was a ten or twelve drink night with an unbelievably bad hangover. The next day I started on baclofen, am currently at only 30mg, a very very small dose. Results:

- haven't had anything to drink
- really haven't cared
- feeling just generally more calm
- have had a very, very productive week workwise

This stuff appears to really hit a spot that I needed hit. The stressy, restless thing that gets me to open a bottle or head to the bar appears to be suppressed. Having tried this I do not find it hard to imagine that a very high dose could suppress the urge to drink even in a 750ml scotch/day guy like Dr. Ameisen was.

So I've established that Naltrexone does a good job of keeping The Beast asleep while I'm drinking; the gloves don't come off, things don't tend to go into a rage. On the other hand, naltrexone appears to have a slow onset with respect to unlearning to start drinking, and wouldn't affect any (for example) unerlying anxiety that provokes drinking episodes.

Baclofen on the other hand appears to (in my case) affect the states of mind that precede a drinking episode. The urge to *start* drinking just hasn't come up. Well once, a little, but I just did something else. [Contrast to a month ago, when I would have robotically opened a bottle while a little voice in the back of my head yelled "no! no! no!" and the bigger voice in the front of my head said "yeah, well sorry mate"].

One experiment that I'm going to do is see if baclofen also keeps The Beast asleep while drinking, independent of naltrexone.

Best to all of you. Try the baclofen, it's real easy.

-Ned