Hello,

Well, week eighteen totaled 41 units for me. Better than 44 from week 17 I guess. )

We had Sunday dinner yesterday and watched the game on TV. My daugher who is 32 and also alchoholic was with us. I found myself very resentful of her comment "how much wine have YOU had" and "Are you drunk?". These two comments were made right in front of my son. I really wish she would keep this type of comment to herself. But she apparently has no filter.

Anyway, I wanted to run something by everyone on this forum; has anyone heard of the website/program "Mywayout.org"? I'm very curious about the drug Topomax listed as an anti-craving medication. This drug combined with hypnotherapy, a book called "My way out" and some supplements. All of this is supposed to eliminate cravings and start you on a new life of abstinance and/or controlled moderate drinking. It does cost some $$ and I was wondering if it was worth a shot if I find that Naltrexone does not work for me.

Any advise or experience with this program would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,

Hey there,
There are some people on this board who came over from MYO, and who have tried the package. I think that the general consensus was that aside from topamax, it's not worth it. Topamax is an effective drug for some people, but I think? it has some unpleasant side effects like weight gain. Not sure. It's definitely worth looking into if TSM doesn't work for you. But don't despair any time soon!!

Thank you EL! You are an inspiration and also it looks like you are doing very well on your journey. I thought it looked too good to be true, ie cravings dissappearing overnight from a hypnosis tape? Hmmmm, I listen to sleep and Depression hypnosis tapes all the time and I find they are less effective with time and repetition. One tape I listen to is by Belleruth Napersak. She has a great voice, very soothing. I think she is one of the best, however, still after listening to her over and over again, it stops working, for me anyway.

Thanks for listening.

Nal on.....

Its likely true that peoples responses to drugs widely vary. However, I recall one TSM-er who had tried Topamax with unhappy results (SEs). Take a look at Bob3d's thread. You can also search this site by entering keyword "Topamax" into search at the top of this page. There are other drugs: Campral and baclofen.

At the risk of sounding foolish, I'm posting this after 5 glasses of wine. I'm trying to find out what is is that really makes me drink so much. Right now I feel pretty buzzed but really, why do I feel the need to do this day in and day out. Why can't I return to the previous 10 year period of sobriety. What is so great about filling my body with dangerous toxins all in the name of the almighty BUZZ. How have I come to this point? And why am I so self destructive. I am a lover of excerisize and physical fitness. What happened to me? Back just 3+ years ago, I was not drinking, I was working out with a personal trainer, I was eating right and doing my best. What happened to me that I felt the need to drink again and let my body go to POT???? This is a terrible situation I'm in. I either keep going to seek a cure and then diet and excersize my way back to health or abstain for now, prolong my treatment and then lose the weight to give my self a buffer, only to regain the weight again because of my TSM treatment. I'm confused about what to do. This is my dilemmma... Wow, life can really be confusing.... Any thoughts on this?????

Hi. I hope what I am going to post is going to be helpful to you. First, let me begin by saying, I think the way you are framing your choices is quite wrong. There is nothing in TSM that says you must continue to drink more than you want. You take the pill, you drink until you don’t want any more. Then you stop. There is nothing there that says you cannot exercise, or must sit idle. You should live your life. If you want to exercise, you should! It’s going to take willpower to do either, which you would need whether you continue on or not. You are pretty far along!

How you got to where you are is the same way the rest of us got here: a mixture of genetic predisposition and repetitive exposure to alcohol. It has nothing to do with our morals or strength of character. After all, Dr Sinclair’s lab rats quit at nearly the same rates as we will. Lab rats aren’t immoral. Nor are they evil. They are simply rats. Like those rats, we are none of those things, either. We simply have a misguided rewards system. Do we have problems? Yes. Where we differ from the rats is our ability to choose. A rat must live in it’s cage and take whatever the experimenter gives or takes away. We, here, are the experimenter!

We know that if we replicate the conditions of Dr. Sinclair’s experiments, we should get similar results. Some here have worked for over a year, laboring towards their goal: drinking at or below safe levels. Something we might secretly hope for is to be part of the abstinent 16%, which some of us will, but 80% of us will be safe. We will get our lives back!

Something that isn’t mentioned much is during Pavlov’s experiments is the duration. The longer Pavlov had rung the bell before feeding the dog, the longer it took to extinguish the expectation of food when the bell was rung. The behavior was much stronger, if it had been engaged in for a long time. Those of us who have drank for many years should bear that in mind: the behavior has been reinforced in our minds for years. It will take longer for that to be broken.

But reading the posts here, it’s easy to gloss over the hard times. The times where drinking has even more consequences. Or the times someone’s previous drinking has left them isolated and alone. Or the hurt of seeing those they have hurt. It isn’t perfect. It damn sure isn’t easy. But it’ll work. We have science on our side. We aren’t merely wishing, we are active in our cure!

Hang in there, know that all of us here are cheering for you!

Hi Nalway
I've been a member of MWO since 2006, I love the site and have made some good friends there. I tried the supplements and Cd's. All in all I just found it too much work, taking all those supps several times a day, listening to certain cd's at certain times didn't fit my ..er.. lifestyle. I never did try Topamax, some have had success on it, but not many.

TSM takes a long time to work, try thinking 9 - 12 months. Lots of people have struggled along month after month and then BAM they see a significant change around the 7 or 8 month mark.

Thank you Heavy fuel and Katiesmiles for your responses. Its 2am and Im awake as usual. I just wanted to write down my thoughts last night while "into my cups" to see what I think about when I'm doing it? Just trying to gain some insight on what runs through my head, what drives me. I'm still not sure. But what I do know is that I see things in black and white, you either do or you don't. For me its either all or nothing. This is the part of me that drives me to finish everything until it's gone. If I have a bag of chocolates, I'll keep eating them until they are gone, a bottle of wine? I'll keep drinking it until there is no more. This applies to evrything I do. I always go over the top. I think it all stems from insecurity, not feeling good enough. I couldnt just jog to stay in shape, I ran a marathon, I can't just buy one plant for my garden, I fill the car with plants until there is no room left in the car and I've spent more than I can afford. Always pursuing that WOW factor. So I guess my disfunctional mind is telling me that, I must overcome this monster before I can achieve health and fitness. I know logically that this couldn't be more wrong. And that I can pursue both at the same time. I also have to grasp the fact that I will not see results in either arena for a long while. I'm just going to have to tough it out and accept it for now. Not all things are black and white, I need to see the different shades of color in between.

But I'm so grateful for all the support during this. Thank you both for your insight. You've been very helpful to me. I hope I can do the same for you. )

Hi Nalway,

I feel for you and I can identify with how you are feeling, I went through that wringer for years! What's wrong with me? Why can't I control myself?, I am useless. I'm a looser. I deserve to feel miserable. What's the point, I might as well destroy myself, I don't deserve better. It was a constant cycle of shame and anxiety and depression and self hate until one day it dawned on me that I am no worse than others who don't binge drink or suffer from depression etc... those people don't have my chemical and genetic make up. I was judging myself through the eyes of someone who has no idea what it's like to be addicted ...

I personally believe that I have less endorphins and dopamine than the general population which pushed me to seek something to give me more, to make me feel better- alcohol. Over the years, through repeated use of alcohol, I interfered with the pleasure pathways in my brain, resulting in my dependance on alcohol. For me, that's where it stops. I am not a morally flawed human being, it's not about me not really wanting to stop. I'm not dysfunctional. It's not about me not having reached my "bottom" yet, or not having suffered enough and all the other junk I swallowed for years. All that was saying to me was that basically I'm stupid... well, I'm not stupid! I have a biochemical deficiency, it's physical, not psychological, just like a hyperactive child lacks dopamine and is not bad mannered or spoilt.

Having said that, this physical (biochemical) deficiency has had psychological consequences and lead to behaviours that I might not have had, had I not had the deficiency. These behaviours and thought patterns can be unlearned just like TSM but on a cognitive level. Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (CBT) is really helpful for that.

I can only try to urge you to try not to think too much for the moment, try to concentrate on TSM and follow the treatment. (re)read The Cure for Alcoholism and accept it. Put all your efforts into that, you will find that as time goes by and you stop drinking so much, a lot of the questions that you are asking yourself now, will be redundant. Don't worry about diet and fitness for the moment either because the less you drink, the less calories you consume and the less you will binge eat late at night or comfort eat the next day, all this will fall into place while you are regaining control of your drinking.

Have a look at this thread, you might find some helpful tips. viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2581

Ease up on yourself, none of this is your fault. It will get better, a lot better and you deserve that!

Best

Curi

Hello Curiousone,

Thanks so much for your response. I found it so helpful. I read the thread you referred me to. There are many good ideas that I will follow in the future. You are doing so well on your journey. Congrats to you. This forum and the people who contribute to it is so important and wonderful. Its nice to know that there are others out there who went through years, decades even, thinking they were not good enough. It really is a bunch of hogwash! I know that, I just have to re-wire my brain somehow to act upon that knowledge and give myself a break for once. Thanks again for your insight.

Best,