Choice.

A friend said something to me a couple of weeks ago that sort of resonated with me. I was explaining to her how TSM worked and what it was like to be an alcoholic. I met her, incidentally, the very year I became an alcoholic, 8 years ago and we became roommates. She said:

"Awful. I can't imagine what it would be like to not be able to be in control of what I was doing or saying, that sounds horrific!"

This, as I said above struck a chord with me. What was it? It went further, deeper into my psyche.

Choice.

I, after finding TSM, realized fully that Alcoholism is a disease. A curable disease. But one which I never had any rational control over. Would you choose to be an alcoholic? No, never. Did I choose to become an alcoholic? No. A direct result (symptom) of alcoholism is that you lose control of your behavior. More so than this I (and I'm sure many of you) have found that as a result of this disease we have lost control over all of these things: what we are doing, saying, feeling and thinking.

So the logical conclusion that we can safely draw now is: "It's not my fault."

Is this a cop out? I want your opinions.

If one chooses to label the addicted brain as a "disease", then , yes, it is not your fault. Even, if it is termed something else, we who are or have been addicted know that there is little or no choice in drinking. I was explaining to my wife yesterday why I didn't like the word "cured". It should be replaced with "control" or "choice", qualities that you do not have while still addicted. Once "cured" under TSM, you regain choice and control and with that choice and control comes responsibility to drink normally or not at all. Even when cured, you can still choose to drink excessively.

"Is this a cop-out?" Hmmm. If there were no way out, despite searching for it, then I guess the answer would be no. However, as we searched for an end to our addiction, we found that there is a way out, then there are no excuses. It would be like the diabetic after finding out about insulin deciding not to take the insulin saying that this is just the way i am. So now that we know there is a cure, the answer I think would be yes, it is a cop-out if you are doing nothing about it. However, all of us here are doing something about it.

Bob

Thanks to tsm we do have a choice but I think Loop you're talking about the general
predicament alky faces when s/he doesn't know of or have tsm ? And as that today, is the common lot of an alcoholic its a damn good question . Incidentally your attempted input on the sober for today forum (?) went about the question as it should be gone about, and , its disgusting treatment there is really worrying .The very question of reclaiming choice and responsability over drinking
is at stake in all that .
As tsm is only recent (but crucial ) history for me I've a long memory of trying to moozey on through life and bear responsability inspite of my alcohilism and no matter how much of a hash i made there I never liked to fully take on board the disease concept with its implied "i'm not at fault " thinking . I also didn't wish to take on board the AA line that it was because of my character defects that I did it .
I believed it was chiefly biological force that gathered momentum in the teeth of which we had to fight to be responsibel and it would get harder .

I don't think your question about choice can spur an either/or response but more so a both/and response ie : No we don't have control/ choice / responsability because there isn't always a guarantee that when we start drinking we'll stop with volition , we do not have the permanent trustworthy faculty to stop ALWAYS.And for that there are consequences in thought , word and deed .
And " Yes " we do have choice because sometimes we do manage stop .
And "Yes " again because Many people postpone the time they start drinking to have an edge over the insanity that it brings , many people whiteknuckle days ,weeks , more of abstinence , this is imposing and exercising control .
It's no fun but we do it for the benefits and the alternative is ugly.
Under the law we're always responsible and no more so for driving , many alkies
refrain from driving on principal , how to exercise responsability here takes committed foresight to realize that if you take the car you will not have the same moral faculties after drinking as sober so all decisions about transport need to be made in stone before the outward journey , as the drunk loop or Elfern is morally deficient .
taking all this into consideration it's why when i saw a man on the TV say

"I have a terrible disease it's not my fault "

and explain how he willfully went about the place shamelessly drunk and would pick his kids up from school .... it Jars with me and I'd do my utmost to avoid it .

But now we do have choice - and a choice made more easily .
TSM RULES .

Interesting discussion LoOp. I do believe we are all responsible for our decisions and actions- addicts or not! However i am not comfortable with ideas of 'blame' and 'fault'. I have also always been uncomfortable with the 'disease model' promulgated by AA.
Bob your Diabetes analogy is interesting- i was married to someone who became a late onset diabetic. Now apparently this is a result of an underlying genetic predisposition. For many years he refused to take responsibility for his health and continued to eat unhealthily and not exercise thus risking his life until eventually he ended up on insulin which according to his doc he could have avoided with diet and exercise and tablets. I think you make a very important point about drinking post regaining control that we have a responsibility to continue to look after ourselves and monitor our drinking.
dict def 'cure': 1. to get rid of (an ailment);heal. 2 to restore to health or good condition. 3 to preserve by salting, smoking etc. 4 to treat by physical or chemical means. 5. a return to health. 6 any course of medical therapy esp. one proved effective.
So what we are aiming for is a 'return to healthy drinking'.

I didn't like the word "cured". It should be replaced with "control" or "choice", qualities that you do not have while still addicted. Once "cured" under TSM, you regain choice and control and with that choice and control comes responsibility to drink normally or not at all. Even when cured, you can still choose to drink excessively.

Bob,
Thanks so much for that. As a non alcoholic mum supporting her son on the journey, I have often wondered how “cured” is defined - especially as some of the “cured” still drink (albeit in small amounts) . For me you have hit the nail on the head - a memorable definition.

An analogy:

Do I have control and choice over my breathing? Why yes, I can hold my breath for 2 minutes. That control is limited, because after 2 minutes, the urge to breath becomes overwhelming and we must succumb to taking a breath.

Sound familiar? How many times have we delayed our drinking or white-knuckled it as Elfern has observed? Yet, as long as the addiction was in place, we may as well have been holding our breath. The urge becomes irresistible and we must drink again regardless of the consequences. We are ultimately not in control of our drinking any more than we are ultimately not in control of our breathing.

Breathing is a biological imperative. We must breath to live and our brain is wired to ensure that it happens. Our addiction has erroneously wired our brains to consider alcohol as an imperative. Call it a "disease"; call it a disorder (I prefer disorder). Ultimately, as long as we are addicted, we are not under control and we do not have choice.

Allow me to state something unpopular and controversial here and I fully expect to be slammed for saying it. Here it goes. As long as we are addicted, we will be at risk for drunk driving, spousal abuse, child abuse, and a laundry list of awful crimes that ultimately we are at risk for and do not have control or chice over, regardless of what the law says. This statement is not meant to dispute public policy, I am only reflecting the reality of the experiences I have seen and sadly some that I have done myself. Example: Despite my best efforts while I was still addicted, I drove drunk many times because I was out of control. I am deeply ashamed that I did this. I could not at the time control it. I was a true irresponsible alcoholic. Now that I am "cured" (under control), I cannot imagine how I did such a risky criminal activity. Yet I did. I was not under control and had no choice, no more than I had the choice of never breathing again. The State would say it was my conscious decision to drive drunk and I must pay the price, but I know in my heart that I never made that decision, my addiction made that decision. Now that I am "cured", I do make decisions and for the record, those decisions have never involved driving drunk.

Let the fireworks begin.

Bob

Here is my take:

No-one ever forced me to drink. I made that choice. My drinking was not out of control, or inevitably (in my opinion) to be out of control from the moment the first drop passed my lips. My problem developed over time because I drank to excess - partly (but only partly) because of the way my body reacts to alcohol. I thought I could handle it, and I was wrong. Other people drank (at different stages) in a similar manner to me, and they don't have a problem today. They're lucky - their bodies weren't hard-wired the way mine was. But my body wasn't hardwired to make me look like Brad Pitt, or to run a 10s 100m, or to have a wonderful singing voice.

I am what I am and I'm responsible for what I do. I'm not forced to drink alcohol - I just find it much more difficult to say no than lots of other people. I have to live with that and take responsibility for that.

I've never been violent (physically or otherwise) because of my drinking, but if I was, I'd have to take responsibility. I'm no saint - I've done some stupid things while drunk, but I'm not the only one to have done so, and fortunately none of my actions have had major consequences for me or others - but if they did, it'd be my fault.

Now maybe I had further to go on a downward spiral and maybe I'd have done these things - I don't know. But I won't abdicate my responsibility. If I lose control to the extent that I'm doing things, then I'd have to stop drinking. I'd be lucky enough that I have stumbled upon what appears to be a very successful method to do so. I AM lucky enough to have stumbled on that. But its my choice to follow it, just as it would be my (foolish) choice if I decided while drunk to do any of the things bob lists.

I've always been brutally honest with myself and self deprecating. This is how I've always felt:


Until I found TSM and realized that I had a disease (disorder). Sure on the outside it sounds like an easier road but I still feel like I am being brutally honest with myself. This is how I feel now:

I don't get into fights either at least not since I was about eleven , I 'm extremely
pleased about at least this outcome of my drinking , I think it's probably just a question of who you are as a person and if you pour alcohol on will it inflame some element of your character . Anyway the question of drinking and driving I do admit
to have done and that is really potentially more dangerous than fisticuffs .
I wish to God I never had and thanks to God there was no incident and thanks to tsm I hope there never will be again .

I think the Romans had it right on this score:

In Vino Veritas