Hello,

This is my first post except where I introduced myself in the introduction thread. I've been lurking here for quite some time and was very impressed by all the successes. I decided to try it. I ordered the nal on-line and when I received it (early July I believe) I decided to wait to try it until I could tell my doctor my intentions. I hadn't read about all the side effects and other drug interactions (I'm on wellbutrin) so I was a little scared to just do it without letting someone know. I couldn't get an appointment until 8/24 because I had just scheduled a yearly routine exam, and they can take weeks and weeks to get.

In the meantime I prepared myself with Dr. Eskapa's book, a printout of someone on here (sorry I forget who it was) who had great success with nal, url's to the sinclair method and this forum, and MWO also as I found a lot of posts about nal and sinclair on there as well. And the annotated bibliograpy of the tests and studies.

Well.... had my appointment and got everything else out of the way and then I said, 'I think I have a drinking problem' (this is honestly the first time I EVER admitted this to anyone, believe me, it was really difficult). And she said, 'so you think you're an alcoholic', and I said 'no, a problem, a really bad habit'. Then went on to explain how if taken out of my environment, daily routine, I'm fine. I've been on trips where alcohol wasn't readily accessible or even available, I didn't think about it, crave it, need it, I was fine. I said it's a bad habit in my opinion because of that and because my routine is, get up, go to work, come home, walk the dog, make dinner, relax with wine and tv, go to bed. Next day, start all over again. So she asked me how much I drank and I told her 2 bottles of wine a night, and she looked straight at me and said you are an alcoholic, do you need an eye opener in the mornings? And I'm thinking, are listening at all to me??? I just told you what I do. And I told her, no, even the thought of drinking alcohol in the morning makes me ill, and then I clarified that I never even think of alcohol when I open my eyes (in case she was going to come back with, 'oh, so you do think of drinking in the morning'. She then commented on how expensive it must be, and how it's full of empty calories and that's why I can't lose weight. Like I don't know that....

So, I gave her my printouts and told her of my intentions of doing the nal. She said she does not condone it (so I guess I won't be getting a prescription from her). She was shocked that it could be bought on the internet without a prescription (I can understand that), then proceeded to scare me by saying, you have no idea what you are getting, could be sugar, could be poison, could be anything that causes a severe allergic reaction (and I can understand that too). In any case, I told her if she could find the time to check out any of the info I gave her she'd see how many people here are all buying it from the same on-line pharmacy (River for most it looked like, and me too). Then she said, well, if you are going to do this nal, you can't drink on it, and if you quit cold turkey like this, even on 2 bottles you could have severe withdrawal symtoms, they can even cause death. Then she said 'since you're alcoholic you need a psychiatrist'. Huh?? I never said I WAS an alcoholic, you did. And I told her that I was hoping she could support me, that I wanted her to know my intention of doing this in case of problems, when I called she'd know what was going on. So in the end she agreed to see me in a month to see how it's going.

Oh, I forgot, she also said nal causes liver damage. The things she told me about nal seem to be in direct opposition of what I've read on here and studies I checked out. I've had hep b and c in the past (cured of hep c in 2002, yay!!) so although I drink, I still try to think of my liver...

I know there's some threads on here about how to figure units of alcohol, but I haven't done that yet. So, I drink 2 bottles of 750ml of wine a night, 8.5% (yes a light weight sweet riesling but alcohol all the same, and loaded with residual sugar.) Bet my doc didn't know I knew that!

I'm on day 2 of the nal. I slept great last night, woke up feeling great. Then I took my wellbutrin (300mg, slow release), then I walk my dog 1 mile around the lake, then go work out at Curves for 30 minutes,(this is my daily routine, without the alcohol of course then was asked to come to work early. I felt kind of strange throughout the day, like I was walking sideways, and sometimes a little dizzy, and just, well, not 100%, but not bad either, I can't explain it. Work was fine, and I'm in customer service/front line, so people and telephone contact all day long, so that was good, I wasn't all weird or anything.

Sorry for the long story, but it just goes to show, most docs aren't ready to accept anything they've not been taught in med school.

Thanks for all the support here, and I'll do my best to give back!
petal

Yes. Most GP's are suspicious of what they perceive as alternative therapies. The Sinclair Method is not alternative. Many psychiatrists, especially those in addictive specialties are open to Naltrexone based therapies, although they are most familiar with Naltrexone and abstinence. Mine is very interested in my success with Naltrexone plus imbibing equals extinction. I am his first patient to have success with Naltrexone. and the only one of his three thousand patients to have used it in the method prescribed by Dr.Sinclair. I suspect he will be using it on his future patients after I see him next week.

You are on the right track. This method leads to a cure. Personally, I still cannot believe it worked. It certainly was not a faith based cure. It worked because of scientific medical methods, regardless of whether I wanted it to work or not.

So, enjoy the long ride. It will seem to take a long time. You will doubt that it is working. But one week, you'll be astounded that it worked, and you will finally be free and happy.

Bob

Yeah I had a similar disappointing conversation with my GP.

Here's a spreadsheet that will figure your units for you:
http://www.tsmnet.net/spreadsheet/

just put your start date in cell A2, put what you drank for the night in the blue area and record your daily totals.

Naltrexone becomes hepatoxic at doses above 300mgs/day. I'm much more worried about how much I drink than taking naltrexone. I think I read somewhere that it is as hepatoxic as one standard dose of tylenol.

Petal, you deserve a medal for being a proactive patient!! Our doctors are not our parents. They are a resource. The internet has forced many of them to surrender the power that our ignorance gave them. When they were the sole (or at least the primary) source of information, they would make pronouncements and write prescriptions. The Information Age has been met with varying degrees of enthusiasm by the medical profession.

My doctor is a blessing. He listened with interest and supported my efforts to find novel treatments for my chronic fatigue syndrome. He continues to support my unconventional benzo titration. In other words, he knows me, respects me and trusts me. He's even willing to learn from me. It has been very tricky keeping the nal secret from him, but I just can NOT have this on my medical record.

Petal, your doctor at least understands that you have the right to make your health care decisions. That is not much but it is more than many would do. She will be curious to see how you do and you certainly have her attention. Good on you for having the courage to go in armed with info. It will pay off for you and for all of us i the long run.

Petal,

I had a similar conversation with my GP when I first started TSM. It isn't easy admitting to ones Dr that you have a drinking problem.

Fortunately I have a really cool GP and he did some research on Nal and gave me a script. I think he's still really skeptical about continuing to drink on Nal, but he hasn't said anything.

Unfortunately, your Dr has no idea what she's talking about and is basically spouting incorrect information, from a position of authority.

For you piece of mind, Nal isn't going to hurt your liver. Do a search in the forums here about Nal and the liver. This has been covered in pretty good detail.

Suggest you continue to buy your Nal from River until you are cured, then go back and show your GP your results alot with a few others from this list. Eventually, these professionals will get a clue and actually read Dr. Sinclairs data.

Q

Petal,

Welcome. My psychiatrist told me she was open-minded but proceeded to tell me that there was no cure for alcoholism and that NAL only worked to stop the cravings when abstaining. I gave here material similar to what you gave your GP. She said she would read it by my next visit. In the meantime, I order the NAL from River and started TSM. When I went back to see her, she had not read anything but I told her I was doing great and taking NAL from the internet. She was amazed that I could get NAL on the net. She was also concerned about it's quality. I was pleasantly surprise that she was open minded and gave me a perscription for NAL. I went to see her a few weeks ago and she was more interested in TSM now that she saw how well I was doing. Maybe you should look into a psychiatrist - they seem to be more open minded than GPs. Also watch out for therapist who are too tied into the 12 Steps. I had to drop mine after he told me he was open-minde about TSM, but then spent 1/2 hour telling me that it could not work and AA was the only way.
Keep us posted.

Regards,
Tom

NALTREXONE + DRINKING = CURED
CURED WK 17 - got my life back !!!

I found your post very upsetting. These doctors, charged with our care, are going to be the biggest obstacle to our success. Everything your doctor told you was entirely false and she could/should be sued for malpractice. OK, I'm venting a bit, but these doctors have an ethical responsibility to stay informed about the latest medical research and to apply the best treatment regimen possible. Every doctor that states "naltrexone causes liver damage" or "naltrexone only works with abstinence" is flat out WRONG and needs to be corrected. If a friendly consultation with an informed patient doesn't do it, maybe a class action lawsuit will. OK, I'm done venting for now. Here is my first post on this site regarding this issue. I cannot emphasize this enough: obscure books and annotations of study are not, on their face, compelling evidence of a medical breakthrough. However, the New York Times is accepted as credible by virtually everybody. And if they run a story about naltrexone and TSM as an effective treatment for alcoholism (which they did -- see it here, copy it and bring it to your doctor -- http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/12/healt ... one&st=cse, then even the most arrogant, ignorant, pigheaded doctor will give it attention. BTW, this article is especially on point, because it cites the definitive authority that allows general practitioners -- and not just addiction specialists -- to prescribe naltrexone for alcoholism/problem drinking.

I have had the same doctor for fifteen years. She is very thoughtful and very competent and is older and conservative. She has been on me for years to quit and I have refused, to date. I knew she would be reluctant to give me this drug when I requested it (after reading about it in the New York Times) and I was correct. I gave her the book by Eskapa and I quoted page 108 and the COMBINE study, emphasizing naltrexone has been accepted as a treatment for boozers by the Journal of the American Medical Association in 2006. She remained highly skeptical and gave me some incorrect information about naltrexone: "I hear people who take it immediately start drinking again when they stop it." I corrected her and explained you only take it before drinking. She refused to give me the drug but told me she'd at least read the book and get back to me.

She called me back on Monday and said that in addition to reading the book she had checked with an addiction specialist psychiatrist who told her he had his doubts about naltrexone but why not try it, given the low-risk nature of the drug. (Not to mention the fact she knows I'm going to keep on drinking anyway.) I received a one-month prescription yesterday and took a half a pill. It ruined my night and made me nauseous. I planned to drink while on the drug but didn't because I felt ill. I guess that's a common side-effect. I only took a half a pill so would strongly advise newcomers to not take a whole pill right off.

I am anxious to see the results. I am a weekend binger for thirty years and toss back 40-50 drinks, Thursday through Saturday. I still am a successful professional, but the "alcohol blues" are ruining at least two days a week for me now. Time to stop at age 45.

I recommend getting a psychiatrist from this group: http://www.aaap.org/. They will know about neltrexone. It's a disgrace that these doctors are so hesitant to give out a benign pill. If it works for me I plan to do a major drive to inform the public and as an attorney, think people will listen to me. If this drug works and doctors refuse to give it out anyway, they are violating their Hippocratic oath left and right and should be ashamed. I'll wait to see how it works for me before jumping on my soap box.

Thank you all so much for your comments and support, it's very helpful and very appreciated. I had already thought of seeing a psychologist some months back because of other life issues, but never got around to it. So now, rather than that I will check out a psychiatrist, so I can maybe get a prescription from them, thanks minneapolisnick for the link for that and the NY times link. I will definitely print it out and give it to my doctor when I see her again in one month. I will be very curious to hear if she investigated any of the materials I gave her, and see if perhaps she softened a bit.

Third day on the nal, it's kind of funny though how I watch the clock at work to determine when to take the nal taking into consideration when I get off work (it varies, hence the clock watching) and walk my dog. I think to myself, oh, so you know you're going to drink, whereas before I never gave it a thought, I just did it. So perhaps when I get a few more weeks under my belt, or whenever it feels right I guess, perhaps when I think about when to take my pill, maybe, just maybe, I'll say, nahhh I'm not going to drink tonight. Overly optimistic I guess, but I'm ever hopeful, that's why I'm here!

Thanks again for all the responses, the collective knowledge of you all is invaluable, I'm soooo glad I'm here!

petal

Ugh, Petal! I am so impressed you did not cry during all of that. Half the time in situations like that - especially 'fessing up "I have a drinking problem" - if met w/ a brick wall like you did, I get frustrated, my eyes well up, all logical thinking goes out the window...but the other half of the time, I am a fighter, and it sounds like that's what you were! My hat's off to you!

Welcome - I am now a big fan of your strong self and wishing you all the best & the success of so many here!