minneapolisnick
Post subject: Naltrexone Dosage/blockage of opiate receptorsPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 6:29 pm


Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 2:17 pm
Posts: 44
I am very sensitive to the side effects of this drug, which is causing restless/sleepless nights, with wild nightmares so bad to the point of not wanting to go back to sleep. Accordingly, I have a STRONG desire to keep my dosage at a minimal level.

Question: if 50 mg blocks opiate receptors for 24 hours, is it safe to estimate that 25 mg blocks them for 12 hours and 12.5 mg blocks them for 6 hours? All of my drinking occurs within six hours of taking the pill. At 6' 1" 200, am I safe taking a 12.5 mg dose of naltrexone if the drinking definitely occurs within, say, three hours of taking the nal?

My point is this: I want to ensure blockage at the lowest dosage and I only drink over a 3-5 hour period, one hour after taking nal. If I take 12.5 mg is this sufficient, or is there a higher level threshold that you need to take in order to have the receptors blocked?

Please don't repeat "the studies were done with 50 mg" -- I know, I read the book. I'm trying to reduce the dosage keeping in mind my time frame for drinking. And thanks for the book -- IT IS SAVING MY LIFE.



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LaBear
Post subject: Re: Naltrexone Dosage/blockage of opiate receptorsPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 5:03 am


Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:09 am
Posts: 192
Nick, I too have the terrible nightmares and sweats, awful. I don't think we can really answer that question as to lowering the dose and still accomplishing extinction. It is possible it will work but do we really know for sure? To me it sounds like it is a bit iffy. Eskapa says that if necessary it can be lowered but for how long and what is the extinction process then? I think if you are planning this and want success it would be good to post this directly to Eskapa. We can only guess at the outcome.

_________________
Pre Sinclair 60-100 units wk

Wk 1 60 units
Wk 2 40 units, 1 AF Day
Wk 3 53 units
Wk 4 60 units
Wk 5 50 units 2 AF Days
Wk 6 45 units 2 AF Days


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Goin4More
Post subject: Re: Naltrexone Dosage/blockage of opiate receptorsPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 6:50 am



Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2009 4:27 pm
Posts: 494
Location: New York State
Nick, I suggest you hang in there, as the side effects greatly diminish over the first month or so. I felt pretty loopy for a few weeks, but now my only discernible SE is early morning dreams that are quite vivid, somewhat uncomfortable, but not in the 'nightmare' class. They give me motivation for getting up earlier than I otherwise might!

_________________
Pre-Sinclair: 70-80 units per week/Craving: 9
Month 1: 55 upw avg.
Month 2: 57 upw avg.
Month 3: 47 upw avg.
Week 15: 51 upw
Week 16: 58 upw


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soulbythesea
Post subject: Re: Naltrexone Dosage/blockage of opiate receptorsPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 6:57 am


Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 6:20 am
Posts: 10
Hi Nick
Agree with idea of asking Dr Eskapa however in the meantime can i suggest a couple of things 1. there are many herbal remedies which help with relaxation and sleep. Not sure whats available in the US. 2. As a counsellor i work with trauma victims who often have periods of intense nightmares i use what is called a 'Nightmare Protocol' with them which is a way of preparing for the possibility of nightmares in advance- its a bit long to post here but i just Googled the phrase Nightmare Protocol and found a link which explains a variation of the one i use by someone called Babette Rothschild. Hope this helps in the meantime. I appreciate it is totally exhausting.




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netty
Post subject: Re: Naltrexone Dosage/blockage of opiate receptorsPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 7:48 am



Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:44 am
Posts: 55
minneapolisnick wrote:
I am very sensitive to the side effects of this drug, which is causing restless/sleepless nights, with wild nightmares so bad to the point of not wanting to go back to sleep. Accordingly, I have a STRONG desire to keep my dosage at a minimal level.

Question: if 50 mg blocks opiate receptors for 24 hours, is it safe to estimate that 25 mg blocks them for 12 hours and 12.5 mg blocks them for 6 hours? All of my drinking occurs within six hours of taking the pill. At 6' 1" 200, am I safe taking a 12.5 mg dose of naltrexone if the drinking definitely occurs within, say, three hours of taking the nal?

My point is this: I want to ensure blockage at the lowest dosage and I only drink over a 3-5 hour period, one hour after taking nal. If I take 12.5 mg is this sufficient, or is there a higher level threshold that you need to take in order to have the receptors blocked?

Please don't repeat "the studies were done with 50 mg" -- I know, I read the book. I'm trying to reduce the dosage keeping in mind my time frame for drinking. And thanks for the book -- IT IS SAVING MY LIFE.


Not sure if you read Dr. E's response to my similar question at viewtopic.php?f=15&t=339. I've been taking 25mg for the past 11 weeks and it's working great for me. BTW -- my side effects (prior to Nal redux) were nightmares, buzzing in the back of my head, and extreme lethargy during the day (no nausea). Based on the research I've done regarding the duration of naltrexone in the opioid receptors, I'm planning on dropping down to 12.5mg this coming week as a personal experiment -- since my drinking is now generally confined solely to 1 -2 beers with dinner -- and seeing if I perceive any difference in effectiveness. If my craving (which is about "1" now), increases, I'm back up to 25mg in a flash. The way I see it, if a lower dose works given my unique drinking parameters, why should I subject my body to a higher dose and higher medical bills? I'll let you know my results next week.

_________________
Pre-SM: 42 units (US), Wk1: 29, Wk2: 24.3, Wk3: 22.2, Wk4: 21.2, Wk5: 17.9, Wk6: 18.8, Wk7: 14.9, Wk8: 17.5, Wk9: 14.5. Wk10: 17.5, WK11: 13.2


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minneapolisnick
Post subject: Re: Naltrexone Dosage/blockage of opiate receptorsPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:24 am


Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 2:17 pm
Posts: 44
Thank you all. Yes, Netty, I read your exchange with Dr. Eskapa which is why I specifically stated, "Please do not recite the fact that the studies were with 50 mg." I also know that he said 25 mg is OK for you if it's working for you. I want to take that one step further to 12.5 mg with the caveat that all of the drinking occurs within three or four hours after taking the nal. Yesterday I had three drinks one hour after taking 12.5 mg of nal. The receptors seemed to be effectively blocked as I could "feel it" as others have reported. The buzz was not of the same intensity and more importantly, I left the bar and for the first time in fifteen years didn't spend the rest of my night obsessing, "Should I go to another bar? Should I hit that wine in the fridge?" I went to bed at 2 AM and woke up at 5 AM. Restless/complete-lack-of sleep but NO nightmares at 12.5 mg. I USUALLY SLEEP FOR 7 HOURS STRAIGHT AND WON'T LAST MUCH LONGER WITH THREE HOURS OF SLEEP. So hell no, I'm not even thinking about 50 mg at this point and am hoping to stick with 12.5 mg on the nights I only have a few drinks and those few are within an hour after my dosage. It seems to me my basic question could be answered -- how long does the nal block the receptors? We know 50 mg blocks them for 24 hours; is it safe to say then that 25 mg works for 12 hours and 12.5 works for six hours OR do you need a higher threshold than 12.5 mg to achieve receptor blockage? Based upon my own highly anecdotal and unscientific trials, the answer would seem to be no and that taking 12.5 mg is ok under the parameters I have outlined.






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