Do some of you who get bad nal-over also smoke?
Has anyone experienced decreased Nal-overs when you gave up?

I only generally smoke when I drink, and when I do, I almost chain-smoke. I find cigarettes a lot less enjoyable now when I drink on Nal. I don't think this has anything to do with Nal and nicotine- more that everything I do now drinking is less enjoyable with Nal. Maybe not everything- its nice to be able to hold a conversation now I'm no longer 'that guy'.

Anyway, I get mean Nal-overs. Its standard for me to literally not to leave bed the next day, wont eat the entire day & night. Vomiting etc. I no longer get drunk all the time so I can handle this. But I bought some nicotine lozenge's today for next time I drink- hoping that these will lessen the dreaded nal-overs. Anyone tried anything similar?

Side note update- been on Nal for two and half-months now. I've only had one blackout and that was my first day on Nal. There is no doubt in my mind, I will have another blackout but not to have one pretty much every-time I ever start with '1 drink' is beyond a god-send

Hi there - I do not understand why you would not still have Nal-Overs when you give up smoking - the Nal-Overs are from the AL - nothing to do with the cigs. And Nzspeak - please do not say that you will have another blackout - try and be positive and assume you won't! If you have only had one since you started nal, and that was your first day on Nal, then the chances are that you are finished with them now! You can do this I know you can! The Nal is only a tool though - you (as you possibly know) have to put some effort into it. It sounds as if the nal will work for you - hang in there..... maybe another smoker can help you with your question about the Nal-Overs and smoking but I cannot see why it would make a nal-Over worse ..... sorry.

Hugs, Maggie

nzspeak,

I do not smoke now, but I have read research articles using nal for drinkers that smoke (for there is a connection with smoking more while drinking). Of course the literature never mentions any type of hangover/nal over that I have read, but I think a nal over would be a reason to stop anything. They used nicotine packs for the patents in some of the studies. Let us know if the lozenges help.

Giving up smoking would be a plus in my opinion, for the expense is extreme now. Years ago when I stopped smoking (longs were $1.79 a pack without tax U.S) I was able to save enough money for a down payment on a car in 6 months, and I didn't even smoke that much.

I can get a nal over with anything over 3 units. I had to play around with my amount before I figured out that I could not have any more than 3 drinks, and sometimes if I do have over that amount I won't get one, and I have had less than that amount and have had one. UKBlonde pointed out that they happen without rhyme or reason, and I tend to believe that. A nal over is so much different then any hangover that I have had, and even a slight one is different. I had them like you, for I would be in bed all day and most times the next (I would pray to get sick, but never did) dry heaves, hot flashes and then cold sweats, anxiety..etc. and the first time I had one I thought I was going to die.

Maybe as you are drinking try to drink one less every session until you wake up without a nal over (that is what I did). You are still early in this process, and things may just happen by itself, and your intake may lessen without trying. But, if the nal overs become to intense finding out that sweet number of drinks so you don't have a nal over will be very helpful in the future.

I do not think you will have another blackout (like Maggie says think positive), for even though my intake increased it never went back up to pre-TSM levels and I am sure the same will happen for you. You do have to work with the nal and not against it, for you can drink through the nal and that is not good (and most likely a reason for the bad nal overs).

I am happy that things are working for you, and not blacking out is a plus!

Keep us up to date,

Jaba

Thanks for your feedback team. I probably need to try the water thing too.

"I do not understand why you would not still have Nal-Overs when you give up smoking - the Nal-Overs are from the AL - nothing to do with the cigs" Cigarettes make hangovers worse. All smokers say when they say they give up,their hangover lesson. So in theory Nal-overs should get better when you give up too. Nal-over aren't just from alcohol- at the very least they are from Naltrexone/alcohol and some people say they get better with more water, more food,.... and maybe less cigarettes? sounds a reasonably hypothesis I think.

I used to smoke too - gave up a few times, once for over 20 years - but most recently gave up three years (or was it two - LOL) ago - but do not recall hangovers being any different once I quit smoking. But everyone is different of course. Since I have been on Nal, I had not smoked so do not know if a Nal Over would have been worse.

Hugs, Maggie

I smoke over a pack a day (it's actually gone up since TSM). Lingering SE's, but no nalovers per the descriptions I've heard. When I started taking Gabapentin, my hangovers were much easier to deal with (at the 9-12 unit level). I was on that for a week before I got the Nal. When I started the Nal, the hangovers were back to pre-Gabapentin levels. I think Jaba's on to something with the study that talks about 6-beta Naltrexol being linked to Side Effects, makes me wonder if that's what causes the nalovers too. I guess the only way you could tell is with an A/B test, switching from oral to injected/transdermal/microneedle Nal that avoids the first-pass liver metabolism and results in lower levels of 6B Naltrexol. I suppose it's even possible that the Naltrexol is keeping the Acetaldehyde from being processed as it normally would for some people, leading to enhanced hangovers (that's what Antabuse does, btw).

Are you still using the Antabuse? When you posted your first experience with Nal, I wondered if the Antabuse had gotten completely out of your system.

You may want to investigate the Gabapentin, it might help with the nausea and will give you better sleep when you drink.

That stands to reason, even with oral Nal, my doc said people's livers were under far more stress from the booze and generally got better while on TSM. I would expect the depot / implant forms to be even less stress on the liver as you're dealing with a smaller quantity per day and no first-pass effects. 380mg seems to be the standard for a depot injection, which divided by 30 is under 13mg per day. The micro needle version in one test(not on the market yet) was around there for the total dose (13mg), but the therapeutic levels were held for 72 hours (as I recall), so even less per day via that route. From what I can find at the outset, the Nal implants that last 6 months are around 2 grams, which would be about 11mg/day, so all substantially less than the typical oral dose and avoids high 6b Naltrexol levels.

Even though the depot/implant is not being processed through the liver by digestion, the liver is still being used in the metabolism process and/or the liver is still being exposed to levels that could increase liver enzymes. I do not want anyone to think that just because the nal is injected instead of digested there will not be an issue (testosterone use comes to mind).

The liver will process more than what we digested, for it is a powerhouse that cleans the body. If they can detect the nal in someones system with a blood sample, it is getting metabolized by liver.

Even though the levels are lower and supposed to be safer, it seems the liver enzymes are even slightly elevated, but in range (which is odd).

This is a new method of administering nal, but has been in the works for many years. As a lot of drugs that have been approved by the FDA you have to way the pros and cons to decide if the side effects/warnings are worth it for quality of life, and since it is a new method a lot of issues will arise later with more use (like any drug).

If there is an issue with your body metabolizing 6b naltrexol, it would not matter how the drug is administered, for it would still give you issues. I would hope that a lot of side effects would be eliminated since the lower doses are being slowly released, but until they do a study on the differences of excretion rates of the nal with side effects it will not be known.

As far as that patch goes, they are trying to find a long term way of administrating the nal without the risks of the injection which have been causing issues.