I decided to throw in the towel on TSM. Drinking at the levels I have been drinking at, even while on naltrexone, is just not acceptable any longer to my wife and for my job. I'm sure that eventually my levels would come down, but they just are not coming down fast enough. Therefore I decided to enter the Schick Shadel program. I'm blogging my experience here:

http://q-at-schick-shadel.blogspot.com/

Good luck to you all.

Q

Wow... surprised to hear that. Any idea what might have different this second time round?

You started your second time around about the same time I started. I was watching you units every week just waiting for you to call the win.

Good luck with your treatment.

The Schick Shadel blog was pretty intense -- I enjoyed reading it. This is definitely a "do not try this at home" treatment, as there are all sorts of things that could happen medically (but not as many as could happen if you keep drinking 60 units a week!). Enjoy your sobriety.

I truly appreciate all your support here and will follow be following your journey. Good luck on your quest, my friend! at 14 months I might just be quitting drinking all together!

Hi Q, I'm so sorry to read that TSM isn't doing it for you this time around. Did you ever figure out if you were getting real Nal or not?

I wish you every success with Schick Shadel !

Best,

Curi.

Curi: I'm not sure if I had good Nal or not. It's hard to say when you are ordering online. I can tell you that the first time I went through TSM, I was getting my Nal from a doctors prescription, and therefore a US pharmacy. The second time around, I was using Nal from the internet the entire time.

I just got to a point where I couldn't continue to consume 35+ units per week. My life was falling apart.

I gravitated to Schick Shadel Hospital (SSH), because it is nothing like a 12-step program and they have alot of scientific research behind them. Independent verification of their success rate puts them at 73% average success. SSH treats alcohol and drug addiction like any other illness. You aren't treated like you are bad or morally messed up, just sick. They use treatments based on solid scientific research that include Chemical Counter Conditioning (Taste Aversion) and Cognitive Interviews under sedation.

I can tell you that after my 4th Duffy (Chemical Counter Conditioning), that alcohol has no appeal AT ALL to me. In fact it makes me nauseous to smell it.

I'd encourage anyone who is not getting what they want from TSM to give SSH a look.

Q

Duude, although this is not ecouraging reading for someone who's just joined this forum...I still wish you all the luck in the world with that Schick Shadel method.

I mean whatever it takes maan...

But are you sure its just not another one of those twelve steps on God's / Buddha's / Allah's path programs?

At any rate, I also have very very strong doubts that you can medicate your way out of a substance dependency, although that (chemicals / medication / heritage) is what have might gotten you into the darn sheeat in the first place.

You need to find the underlying causes.

It's like saying that someone that have itches and scrathes all over is suffering from "Scratchism"...

You need to find the underlying cause of the scratch.

Whether that be childhood, broken heart, dull & boring family life or just a general feeling of depression and "downness".

There is something else underneath there...that is the reason why you drink. And we need to find that.

Medications (like Nal) might help on the way, but.....it is not the entire answer.

The idea that "there's a reason why we drink" is very debatable. After all, how else would you have alcoholic rats and primates -- surely they don't drink for any other reason than to, well, just drink. They want the alcohol. Sure, maybe some people drink "for a reason," but I would argue other people simply drink because they get a rush from the alcohol or, like alcoholic rats, they are driven to drink simply because their brain is telling them to. Personally, I honestly don't think if you put me under sedation and truth serum, I would come up with any reason that I drink other than, "I used to drink to fall asleep and I got hooked."

Plus, the Schick Shadel method does NOT seem to be based on religion at all -- instead of operant conditioning like TSM, it uses aversion therapy plus some hypnosis / cognitive therapy.

Schick Shadel is about as far from a 12 step program as what TSM is. There's nothing "higher power" about it.

It's actually not that much different than TSM, except you have to be abstinent with SSH. The treatment kills the craving.

Have a read of my blog. I need to fill in the last two days as soon as I get over this last "Duffy," but it is fairly detailed in terms of what I did while at SSH.

In any event, I am not in any way knocking TSM. It simply wasn't working for me the second time and I couldn't go though life any longer drinking 30+ units a week. My life was falling apart.

I wish everyone the best of luck and I'll still be hanging around.

Q

Man! that's hard core! I felt nauseous just reading your blog! I'm very curious about the sleepys, what drug are you given?

Aversion therapy sure makes sense to me. I experienced it once when I got sick after eating something. The throwing up was actually because I had a stomach virus and not related to what I had just eaten, but to this day, some 3 years later, I still can't eat that food.

I hope you are near the end of your torment and that it has been worth it. I'll be following your blog with interest.

Best wishes,

Curi