I got on an AA forum and talked at length about TSM and these were some of the replies I got: " it was all BS with a capitol 'B' ... put that in your pipe and 'smoke it' ... cause I don't know what else you been smokin', but it just don't smell too good ...

And if there are those out there dumb enough to believe the crap you're pushin', then all I can say is God help'm ..."

I could just see the mob coming at me with torches and pitchforks!

Fortunately, I find AA meetings in real life quite different. Much more emphasis on NOT playing doctor and NOT giving advice about medications.

I like going to the meetings because of just the commonness of purpose and the commonsense spirituality. I don't even believe in God. I've gone as far as to say I was able to stop drinking because of a recent medical breakthrough but I've not gone into any more detail than that and no one has ever asked me about it.

Has anyone else been on 'trex and gone to AA? I'm trying to bridge the gap here.

I am not a fan of AA: they believe their way is the only way. They believe that for a reason. On the one hand they claim to have a disease or "allergy," on the other they claim one has a "moral defect." It is either one or the other, it cannot be both. While morals may prevent one from certain diseases, the ailment itself is amoral.

In general, I find hard core AA members to be obnoxious. It's all about what "this alcoholic" knows. They also make excuses for failing to treat the disease: slips. Worse, they refuse to accept any modern medical help. If you say to the AA member, "I am doing TSM." The first response is what you are doing is an excuse to drink. No thought to the underlying facts. No thought to an alcoholic never needed excuses before. Willfully ignorant and rude.

In my assessment, AA is a religion. They claim they want to help alcoholics achieve "sobriety," but they define sobriety much differently than a dictionary. To AA, sobriety is much more than simply not drinking: it's a fix to their character defects and a relationship with their god. Anyone who simply quits drinking, however they do it, without this experience is a "dry drunk." While there are appears to be a behavioral aspect to alcoholism, it certainly isn't a moral/religious problem. And, in "this alcoholic's" experience, very treatable.

I hope you find the fellowship you are looking for, as that seems what you want. But AA is much more than a fellowship.

Hi AdrianO - I was intrigued by this post and so read your others, including your marvelous first post...well said!

So...I'm not going to weigh in too much on your AA question, though I understand what you're saying. I was very superficially and briefly associated w/ them a long time ago and never bought into the whole premise, other than the support of friendly people when I realized I would be better off, NOT drinking. I think people in AA have SO much invested - at best, painfully won control over drinking (by NOT drinking) - that even considering another option is...just too threatening. Hmmm. I'd never noticed the paradox that HF points out: "what is it, a "disease", or a "moral defect"? You can't have it both ways!" (love that, HF!) I consider both of those ideas pure nonsense.

Anyway, I posted here because I wanted to know how you are doing overall w/ TSM since joining a year ago or so. You referred in your 2nd post to losing all desire for alcohol...did that effect last for you???

Hey Adrian
The image of pitch forks and torches made me laugh, in my mind I can see that happening. I am not surprised in the differences in the response between what you would receive on the internet versus real life. People tend to be a little more brave behind a keyboard than in person.

I can see a potential positive in going to AA in the sense that it shows to other people that there is another way. I do not think that it would be well received though. My understanding is this TSM address's the physiological and psychological aspects of alcohol dependence. If we look at it like this drinking alcohol provides something to the individual a positive reinforcement, going to excess those positives affect negatively. In the end a person gets something out of it if they did not they would not do it.

Naltrexone removes that positive reinforcement the individual can drink if they want they are not going to get that chemical reward though. A simplistic analogy is this I like my job if I am not going to get paid I am not going to do it. This such a different (though logical) approach to resolving issues with alcohol compared to traditional methods. People with a lot of time invested in AA can not help but see it as a threat maybe not all I would think you would not be popular at meetings.

I was in AA for almost 2 years and let's just say the program and I didn't jive. I recently told a few 12-steppers I know about the Sinclair Method and these were the responses.

"The Sinclair Method is killing people"
"Sounds like an easier, softer way"
"It is just an excuse to drink"
"Sounds like an ass backwards way to quit to me"

So in my honest opinion I wouldn't go anywhere near AA while doing this method.

I believe this is because to follow an abstenance based programme you have to believe any other way doesn't work, if they didn't they'd give in to the "I can just have one drink" nags.

I have told a couple of AA friends about TSM and how that has helped me, they have not judged or condemned me one bit. Whilst they may not understand it and are firm in their beliefs they are happy for me that I have found some peace. I wouldn't however feel comfortable in going to AA again because I am not abstenant and AA is for people who seek abstenance.

Most people when told about TSM think it's a con, or an excuse to drink and I don't hold that over AA members for that reason.

Thnak you HF for your thoughful post. As a child I was drug through AA by my father and his issues. I developed and extreme dislike for AA. (and all AL counseling.)
The logic flaw was clear, allergy? or ethics? morality?.
TSM is science, biochemistry is taking huge leaps forward, we will see alot of biochemical drugs inthe furture. HCG for weightloss is another exapmple.