Let me clarify that subject statement: When we push or force ourselves to put in AF (Alcohol Free) days while we are still craving to drink, that only proves that we still have a way to go in our extinction process. The dear doctors suggest that AF days be put in ONLY if/when you reach the stage in your progress when you simply don't crave or want to drink! For some people that day arrives very quickly. For most, it takes longer. And then the doctors initially mention that the value of AF days are ONLY in the context of taking advantage of the concept of "Selective Extinction". And they also say that as we continue taking the Naltrexone + drinking, that our AF day's will increase naturally, without effort.

The title of their book is: THE CURE FOR ALCOHOLISM: Drink Your Way Sober Without Willpower, Abstinence, or Discomfort.

I think the title of their book say's precisely what The Sinclair Method is all about. They would NOT have called it that if Willpower, Forced Abstinence or Discomfort had anything to do with the method!

Naltrexone + drinking = cure = AF day's, weeks, months, years, lifetime (if we so choose). The AF days begin the day that the Naltrexone brings us to the point of having no desire, no craving, to drink that day! Some of us, however, at that point MAY have to wrestle a bit with a HABIT, especially if we have been daily drinkers for many years. That's different! The craving by then, however, is gone -- it's at ZERO (or darn close) thanks to the Naltrexone and the extinction process. To put in AF days before we have lost the craving to drink does absolutely nothing to help with the extinction process! It means we don't understand the extinction process! Plain and simple.

Y'all take care.

I believe we each have to make our own journey towards reduced or zero alcohol consumption and I don't believe drinking numerous units everyday w/out any effort to proactively reduce units is going to get anyone to the finish line anytime soon. There is no "good or comfortable" time to go AF. It takes some degree of willpower whenever you do it... and that is partly due to the habit and maybe even partly due to lingering cravings; I believe it's very difficult to completely separate the two.

I believe that Naltrexone is helpful in regaining control and Baclofen may be too. Everyone owes it to themselves to read "The Cure for Alcoholism" and try the prescribed approach. But if you find yourself on an AF run sooner than you might have, for heaven's sake don't beat yourself up about it; what you've done (in my experience) is gotten yourself on a fast track to progress. Introduce alcohol back into your life slowly (to help avoid extreme ADE) with Naltrexone and work at it that way. Take one day at a time and know that you are not alone.

I don't believe there is a "one size fits all" prescription here. If you read the "cured" threads, you'll learn that people have found success w/ Naltrexone (and sometimes Baclofen) with different approaches. It's okay. Just keep at it and don't give up. There's a lot that goes into reducing the role that alcohol plays in your life beyond taking a pill. (But the pill part is a very important component.) Success requires a thoughtful approach, understanding why you drink, what your triggers are and addressing the chemical imbalance that gives you the cravings.

I wish everyone well on their journey.

i agree 100% with everything you said dabs. i asked dr. escapa about my concern about how the habit part plays a role in tsm. he simple said that in the clinical trials people just lose there desire and didnt want to drink. what confuses be is in all the trials that were done, i shure the habit a issue had to be a problem. there was no mention, i believe in the book, saying anything about the habit. actualy im wrong i think there was a mention about lifestyle change. but reagdless "THE HABIT" to me at least, is going to be a huge issue. dabs i decided not to fly to ketucky to see the dr cox who worked with dr. sinclair, until i reach the 9 month stage. and if i see no results im flying to see him. he is very expensive and will not do phone consulation or emails.also he will only see my for one hour.again dabs i feel you pain i drink every day and dont see any reason to do a af day if i have to struggle that night. i could of done that without tsm.

Dab,

You are wrong here. You are reading the title of Dr. Eskapa's book wrong. This title is in reference to other treatment methods that are based entirely on willpower.

Have you read this book? It very CLEARLY recommends taking AF days using restraint after TSM gives one the ability to do so. Some people simply can't go even hours without drinking. TSM will slowly give this person the ability to restrain from drinking. At some point, this person will be able to restrain from drinking for an entire day.

If you choose to keep drinking like a fish even after TSM releases you of the brain chemistry craving for AL because you have the "HABIT" of drinking, then you are still going to get intoxicated. TSM doesn't break the habit of drinking. TSM breaks the brain chemistry craving to drink. This is VERY VERY important. Let me repeat this: TSM breaks the brain chemistry craving to drink, not the habit we have personally developed to drink. It is still up to us to break our own habit of drinking. We have to make the decision not to drink nightly once TSM gives us the ability to overcome the craving to do this.

It has been awhile since I read The Cure, so I don't have an exact page quote to reference, but I am going to find it now and post it here.

Q

Precisely! And when that day comes, well, maybe for some a little ol' will-power might be necessary to help them to get past the habit, and be their first AF days. You said it exactly.

My point is, struggling to put in AF days BEFORE TSM has brought us to the point of easily making the choice/decison to do so, does nothing other than delay TSM from working! Of course. It's like putting the windshield wipers on in your car before it rains! Windshield wipers need the rain to really work. Same with Naltrexone. No rain, no alcohol = zero progress for the extinction process to work. When it does, the AF days will come naturally.

Nal + alcohol = the Cure. Forcing in AF day's before the cure is like putting your windshield wipers on during a sunny day: it accomplishes nothing. That's my point.

Thanks!

good point Q. i know my craving and urges are down dramaticly. BUT the habit is hard to break, condidering i have no hobbies. the only thing i look forword to do is turn the tv on evrynight play my bass guitar and watch tv. that has been a habit for me for ten years. i knew when i started tsm this would of been a issue if tsm worked for me. i asked GOD everynight to take this drinking away, and he meet me half way by taking the craving and urges away from me. some alcholics dont get that chance. dabs i know where your comming from. we want a magic pill to do the whole job for us. i quess life doesnt work like that.

So, throwing my $0.02 in, I think Dab is right here. If we accept that craving for alcohol is gradually extinguished by consuming alcohol after having taken an opiate blocker, then, on average, every occasion we do this contributes, albeit slightly, to the extinction process. Therefore, any day where you do not consume alcohol after having taken an opiate blocker (that is, a day where you drank alcohol without taking the opiate blocker, took the opiate blocker without consuming alcohol, or took neither), does not contribute to the extinction process.
But it really does seem that there is more to overcoming alcoholism then simply addressing cravings. I'm sure that what Q says is also correct - Alcoholics consume alcohol for a number of reasons, and you really need to address all of them to be successful. As Q says, habit was a major problem in my specific case. The Sinclair Method took care of the cravings for me, and I was able to deal with the habit part myself, with a bit of will power and discipline.
I'm pretty sure that without the Sinclair Method extinguishing the cravings, I would never have been able to overcome the addiction on my own.

I'm only repeating what is in Dr. Eskapa's book. I didn't have a chance to dig back into it and find the exact page where this topic is covered, but I will soon and post back to this tread.

Back to the discussion: AF days for a daily drinker are a HUGE morale booster. Don't under-estimate them. IMO, there is much to be gained by working towards AF days once you are 3-4 months into TSM.

Q

I totally agree with what everyone is saying, for the most part (and yes, I have recently re-read the book).

Of course AF day's are good -- good for our morale, good for our health, good for our families, friends etc., etc. I'm simply addressing a train of thought that seems to be promoted amongst some of the people here in the forum, that forcing in AF days in some way helps -- facilitates -- the extinction process, which of course it does not. Only Nal + drinking can do that. I'm just talking about the EXTINCTION process here, which only Nal + drinking can accomplish.

Only Nal + drinking makes the extinction process work. It reduces our cravings and interest in alcohol and takes us to the place where one day we simply don't want to drink. That is the day and the time to go AF. Yes, even if it takes a little willpower for some to push past the daily drinking habit, or the Friday night or weekend bender. The repetition of a habit is what reinforces the habit. AF day's of course help us to weaken and get free of the habit. And, as the Nal extinction process continues via Nal + Drinking, our AF day's will naturally become more frequent. But there is no need or purpose to push or force them in before the extinction process has relieved our cravings and interest in the booze and given us that freedom.

Of course extinction has to involve drinking however I don't believe that after the process has begun that you should rule out AF days if that's how a person feels. It then enables not only upregulation but also the person to realise their cravings aren't as bad as they used to be. Quite a few of us realised after a while we really didn't want to drink, and with a little effort combined with the fact TSM had started to significantly reduce the cravings it was achieveable. I was never usually a daily drinker, ok occasionally I had periods of daily drinking but I was more of a binge drinker. TSM made my drinking safer and I ended up drinking 5 days out of 7 with it. After 6 weeks or so I realised I didn't want to drink every day, just didn't like it and sometimes it wasn't compatible with my lifestyle(I do not drink and drive full stop so if out for the evening with the car I simply wasn't drinking).

Each AF day made me realise I really didn't have to nor want to drink most of the time. Sure initially you need to be drinking frequently with the Nal for it to work, but I was forming a new habit that I didn't want and reduction in cravings from TSM allowed me to easily reduce my drinking days.

I don't believe in telling people they MUST drink whatever it is they 'normally' drink, I 'normally' drank 20-30 units in a binge which would render me pretty useless the next day, for me to have done this every day on Nal would have (A) made me extremely ill and (B) made it impossible to live my life day to day. I say drink as you feel, stop if you don't want to carry on(either in the session or because you fancy a day without booze). At the beginning most people still want to carry on drinking but over time this tends to lessen as the drive to drink becomes extinguished.