I haven't had a drink since my last binge blow out on 2 September 2011. It was a pretty horrific night: I lost my work laptop and my luggage. I ended up on the wrong train home from London. I spent £500 on the company credit card in a strip club and rolled into bed at 6am. I have no memory of the night after 8pm.

I subsequently received a written warning from my new boss who said, "I'm really concerned that the behaviour that got you fired from your last job hasn't stopped." I was fired from my previous job due to spending £1,000 in a strip club on the company credit card and then trying to cover it up.

My wife lost all hope and filed for divorce proceedings. I moved out into a bed-sit with some random guy that worked on the railways!

I'd like to think I'm a smart, educated person. I hold an MBA from a prestigious university and have even delivered guest lectures at London Business School. But I have a binge drinking problem.

Looking at the evidence above, why the hell would I risk having a drink again?

However, increasingly I've been feeling that I want some 'escapism'. I feel that I'm always on the go, that I'm always ‘wired’. I also have two weddings coming up and the thought of facing them sober is terrifying.

It may be a small point but I've been drinking lots of coffee again after previously giving that up too. And caffeine has been proven to increase alcohol cravings. Anyway, my big question is:

Should I take Nal and have a few drinks (no more than 4 pints) or should I learn to deal with life sober?

My logical self looks at the above story and says, "Are you Mad?" However, part of me is 'pining' for the old days when I had loads of confidence from alcohol.

The reality: I'm too scared to have a drink. I have a healthy fear of what will inevitably happen should I have a drink without Naltrexone. But can I drink after taking 50mg of Nal? I’ll probably be OK. Has anyone been in this situation? Any advice?

The problem is that even if I'm OK, it will destroy the confidence I've been building with my wife. She hasn't yet put her wedding ring on, but I'm living at home again.

Andy.

Andy,
So good to hear from you and I was happy to see that things are progressing per your plan. I am still on the journey although I feel like I may be close to the “big breakthrough” that we all hope for. As a result I can’t answer your question from experience, but think that if you want to test the waters with having a few pints that you should do it in an environment where that you control rather than at a wedding or some other big function where there a numerous triggers present.

Be sure to check in every once in a while you have been an inspiration to many on this forum.

Best of Luck,
Diver

Hello, Andy! It’s been a while!

I read your questions earlier today, and I thought about them a good bit. It’s a good question, if we stop drinking for some period of time, will naltrexone still work? In my opinion, what’s important here isn’t the question you posed; it’s the question BEHIND the question which is more prickly.

First, as Nalwayout proved, abstaining from alcohol for a period of time, and naltrexone for that period, she picked up pretty much where she left off and then tapered to nothing very quickly. Based on her experience, taking the pill and drinking isn’t a problem. In my opinion, her case and yours, are very different.

First, when you were drinking and taking naltrexone, you chose to drink off nal while having the naltrexone in your bag. You knew the risks of a bender for yourself, and chose to run that risk. Now, you want to drink, for some kind of escape. It’s almost like you miss excitement. That’s the unknown. At some point, would you decide to run wild, with no naltrexone to buffer you? That’s something you would have to addrss.

Several times you have spoken of high risk hobbies and pursuits. Maybe you should go to those for the excitement you need. Alcohol is no good because none of us can control the risk when we are blacked out drunk. The need to escape must be met, but substances aren’t the best way to deal with that.

Secondly, you made a promise to your wife. If you ever go out of control again, what you hold dear, your wife and child, will be out of your life. You might be back couch sitting with the railroad guy again. Is an escape worth that risk? Only you can answer for you.

I know the call: I keep first remembering the hard partying, fun, life of the party guy I once was. Funny how memory works: I remember the good fondly; I work to remember the bad. I don’t automatically remember the guy I became. Someone who has come out of black out in jail, been in vicious bar fights, and done so many embarrassing and questionable things, I have lost count. I lost a lady I loved because I preferred to drink and raise hell with my "friends" than be the man I should have been for her and she had sense enough to leave. All of which culminated in a man so angry he didn’t care what happened to anyone. A man so scared if he didn’t maintain some semblance of control over his alcoholism, he’d be dead somewhere.

When we leave those things, when the train is slowed enough for us to get off, we should. You’ve made it this far, maybe with some tweaks, you can happily go further.

Andy, I hope you don’t take my comments as overly critical or hurtful. I don't mean any of these comments that way, I just hope you consider how blessed you are and how easy it would be to lose it.

Hi Andy_M
Your posts were among the first I read when I found this forum. You had quite the roller coaster ride. My 2 cents are that if you've managed not to drink for 7 months----which is huge----don't start. Certainly don't drink at the weddings. If you drink at the weddings everyone will notice and people will start worrying about you....most importantly your wife and your relationship is already pretty fragile (reading your posts).

IF you do want to test the waters, take a Nal and have 1 beer (not 4). See if you can enjoy that one beer and stop for the night.

Good luck!

Hi Andy! So good to hear from you. So you're in a tough spot. On the one hand, I totally understand where you're coming from. You've proven that you can be sober...but does that mean it's the best solution for you? That's what's left to find out. Certainly, being sober is better than where you were before. But part of you think that you could have it all - moderate drinking, the release and social activity that comes with it, but still the control and good behaviour. Maybe you can. Maybe you can't. I think that with TSM, you can get there - but there's no guarantee that you'll be there automatically when you try to drink on nal again.
I have to say that I think your wife, though understandably, has put you in kind of an impossible situation. She is essentially saying that if you ever drink again, you have screwed up. And that really goes against everything that TSM stands for. Now, I can understand wh she would just say, why not stay sober if you've been sober. And that's a valid point. But if she drinks at all, she might be able to understand what it is that you're missing. I guess what I'm saying is...I wouldn't start drinking on nal again before clearing it with your wife. I certainly would not try and do it on the sly. I think that maybe you guys need to have a conversation about how you feel like avoiding alcohol forever is not the best solution for your emotional health (or whatever) and how she feels about that. And if she can EVEr imagine a future with you if you decide to drink moderately. Because I have to say that if you're having these desires, this is getting dangerously close to AA territory - I'm afraid that you might just crack one day and drink again, WITHOUT the nal.
Hope this helps,
EL

Okay, I've really hesitated to weigh in here since I'm no expert and my own experience is so different from your dramatic tale. "Dramatic" meaning in terms of your "before TSM" life, and then your dramatic cure. W/ that disclaimer I will go ahead and say what I've been thinking for several days and that is that you were a very rapid responder before and so if you try drinking and find yourself in trouble, you will likely once again rapidly respond and get back on track in short order. You've seen life from both sides now and I can't believe you'd ever endanger your current good life w/ going back to that pre TSM life. I can understand your restlessness and wanting to test the waters! I guess my bottom line is...your restlessness is likely to persist and is a form of "white knuckling" in itself. So I'd say...heck, give it a try. You were lucky enough to be a rapid responder before and probably still are. Try it, if it's good, fine. Good knowledge to have. If it starts to go to hell, you're smart enough to end that experiment, and know the road back.

But I agree w/ EL that you should talk to your wife about all this, and I agree w/ the other posters saying NOT at the wedding: first try in a more controllable setting, like at home - and set some goals for au#s, to test your control. Please keep us posted!

Chrissie

Hi Andy --

I have mixed feelings about giving you advice on this, but my immediate reaction was: Holy, s***, he's going to crash and burn again. I waited to post to mull this over and still have the same fear.

When you were boozing you got to be so dramatically self-destructive. Many of the rest of us kill ourselves quietly, daily, without the kind of crazy personal and social situations you landed in. I'm not being judgmental AT ALL, friend. Not at all. Just being descriptive.

Being abstinent has been a virtually total positive for you. Yes, there are negatives but they are insignificant in the face of the benefits. Especially in terms of your family.

At the same time, I can see why you want to find some happy place between the extremes.

So here are some thoughts:

If you do decide to try drinking again, be VERY disciplined about your approach. Maybe go on nal for a couple weeks before you even try to drink to get it up in your bloodstream again. Do NOT experiment in social situations or when traveling on business. Limit your intake. Maybe go to the pub with a set amount of cash and no credit card.

It would be smart to have the support of your spouse. But I can understand her fear of what may happen.

Most of all, have a clear escape plan if it does not work out. And follow that plan!

For some reason I also want to caution you to wait awhile before testing yourself. Just to make sure you aren't going through a bad patch. Maybe a month from now you won't care so much?

Well, for being hesitant to offer advice I sure produced a lot of it!

Whatever you do, Andy, stay in touch with us. You've got a big team of supporters here on the board.

Hi there Andy - thanks for checking in.

I had a feeling we'd be seeing a post like this from you at some point. My personal opinion has always been (and in NO way do I mean to be accusatory here) that your wife's ultimatum ended up abruptly cutting your TSM progress short before you were completely at the finish line - hence why you're having these nagging thoughts about drinking again. I understand that you did what you had to do to save your family, but had you not been put in a do-or-die situation, I think you would have continued on the TSM path after your mild setback at the pub.

You should absolutely not attempt this without your wife's consent, and I'm hesitant to think that she'll give it to you. Everything has been going so well for you and your family since you decided to stay sober, so what could possibly make her want to chance ruining the past seven months of progress? If you end up having another night where you get banged up and forget to call her (which normal people do from time to time), I don't think there will be anything you can do to get her back.



Indeed, weddings/dancing etc. while sober can be terrifying, but breaking out some awkward whiteboy moves without liquid courage is a lot less terrifying than losing your family. You've made it this far sober, so maybe you can keep pushing it.

The posters above have offered you a lot of great advice, and I'll echo Tiller in saying that you have a big team of supporters here. No matter what you end up doing, we'll still be here for ya.

Best of luck, and please keep us updated.

-H

There is some really excellent advice - thank you. I have to also admit, I haven't responded because the part of me that wants to drink thought, "Fu*k it - ignore this advice and go and get pissed."

So I did drink at the first wedding - without Naltrexone and had an amazing time. However, my behaviour did get a bit out of control - and I started stealing drinks that were lying around and then ordering pints of beer and downing them when my wife wasn't looking. I can't remember going to bed so had a tiny blackout at the end of the night although I did set my alarm for breakfast and hang up my tux, so I wasn’t totally out of it.

However, last night’s Stag / Bachelor party was a bit messy and I blacked out and lost control.

I did take Naltrexone, but deep down I still wanted to get wasted…so I did. Naltrexone can only help so much. If you want to get wasted then you will still get wasted. However, Nal really did make a difference early on in the evening, for example, I drank lemonade when everyone else was doing Jaeger-bombs.
I stayed in control until Midnight but then cracked.

The story…

I set my alarm as a reminder and took 50mg Naltrexone at 6pm. The side effects weren’t too bad (as usual, I got a bit hot, my ears were red and burning and I had a little bit of anxiety / nervousness that passed within 10 min). Ironically, Naltrexone’s side effect makes you socially uncomfortable and then you need beer to take away this feeling!

I didn’t drink during the day when my stag mates all had 4/5 pints of beer. I did have some beers in the evening – maybe 8 pints between 6pm and 11 pm, - failure 1 was not measuring my intake. I then started buying rounds of beer with tequila / Jagermeister chasers. Then I just bought shots. Then I blacked out and lost the period from 1am to 5am.

At 5am. I found myself wandering the streets in my tee shirt in the freezing rain. Judging how much my feet and legs ache today, I’d say I was walking for at least 2 – 3 hours.


The implications…

Part of me thinks I’m ‘entitled’ to get wasted on a stag do… No harm done. What’s the big deal? But blacking out like this really should probably be concerning me more than it really is. Nothing has changed, I cannot handle these big binge sessions.

As for my wife… she said “There’s no point in continuing our relationship, you lost control and this is it; I’ve had it with this marriage. You’ve had so many chances and you blew it.” Then to really make me feel good she said, “If I am pregnant, this is a disaster.”

I don’t think I have ever felt so angry in my life. Yes I can’t handle my drink – and yes, I need to figure out what to do. Fortunately my wife has gone out to see her friends and have a drink!


The future?

So I need to have a think about my strategy for drinking… clearly I can’t handle alcohol and I will always black out. Knowing what I know about the effect alcohol has on endorphins, this will never change. This time nothing bad happened – well not by the usual standards – but should I just give up for ever? I’m not cured and I haven’t regained control. I’m still out of control waiting for the next blowout.

Sorry for this post being a ‘downer’ - will probably be better tomorrow. I’m also conscious I’m not giving anything back on the forum at the moment, so thanks for your patience whilst I sort my life out.

Take care,

Andy.

Andy: I read your posts with great interest, as I am about to end five months of complete abstinence and start on STM. My drinking life was ugly, though not as dramatic as you describe, and I sure don't ever want to go back there, but like you there's a part of me that wants to drink "normally."

What I think at this moment -- it may or may not have any applicability to you -- is that while NAL will break the physiological part of my destructive drinking pattern, it's every bit as important for me to work on the fact that I had allowed alcohol to become my #1 medicine for all unpleasant feelings. Angry? Drink it away for awhile. Scared about something? Drink it away for awhile. Resentful about what someone said or did to me? Drink it away for awhile. You get the picture. Of course when I drank it away for awhile, it was back the next morning with another layer of bad feelings added on.

So when I start the STM thing in a couple weeks, I'm going to do my NAL+drinking in a VERY measured, careful way, in occasional reasonable amounts and only when "all's right with the world" as far as what's going on in my head. I tell myself if I get even a whiff that I'm upset about anything, no alcohol, period. And no sneaking off and drinking alone -- that was part of my pattern -- and no game-playing with myself like gulping down a couple strong ones up front while telling myself that then I'll just sip on #3.

Bottom line, therefore, is that I'm planning a two-part program, because I'm absolutely convinced JUST beating the old endorphin thing isn't going to get me where I want to go. I absolutely have to develop the ability to work through bad feelings, and oh by the way, to ask other people to help me with that when necessary rather than telling myself I have to be all-powerful and never, ever admit I can't handle something. I don't know if all that will be in any way helpful to you, but I hope so.