They deleted an entire TSM thread started by someone who was interested in it because of this:

The thread was like 3 pages long, it's been there for over a month. There was no bickering or arguing or anything 'SoberRecoveryish' at all on it. Everyone was familiar with the method and so is CarolD, the admin that deleted it.

Crown was sharing his story on there and people were interested.

The reason I was explaining how the graph worked was because CarolD said that they were confusing (the last couple that I posted over the last few weeks).

That is just WRONG!

Loop

I just checked I am pretty sure the thread is still there she just deleted your graph and explanantion wich is BS and WRONG...I would say with 2000 views yep folks are interested...I got a few PM thanking me for sharing the info on it...why they are so damn closed minded when it could save a life I will never know....if it is deleted...I am done there. Wasn't for me was to help spread the word and help others

It looks to be a 12-step site. By, for, and about 12-step programs and providers. Isn't the very idea of a healthy relationship with alcohol antithetical to the entire 12-step worldview?

Given that, hardly surprising that any mention of TSM or any AL-tolerant program is as welcome as Satan at a church pancake breakfast.

welcome as Satan at a church pancake breakfast.

Too funny

Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.

A popular 12-Step Slogan is, "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result."

It is beyond me why anyone who has spent any time on this board expects a warm welcome on that board. They are twelve-steppers. Maybe some are looking to alternatives, but that does not appear to be the mission of that site. There have been shrill civil wars here about forays over there.

If anyone wants to spend time there -- fine, but please don't act surprised if you don't get a warm welcome from the board moderators there. And, as is their prerogative, they have adopted a different moderation policy than the free-speech policy we have here. We may think it's wrong, but that's up to their community. Maybe you will reach a few members by posting there, but mostly you just will upset people. If people want to find alternatives to twelve step programs, they will look around -- just as we did.

Another popular 12-step slogan is, "Live and let live."

While I view 12-step programs with disfavor, I can't help thinking they are on to something with some of their slogans.

EDIT: Lo0p, if enthusiasm counted for everything, you'd have saved the world from alcohol addiction by now. I never forget for a minute that your heart's in the right place.

I echo Lena's comments and thoughts.

There isn't the same level of acceptance over in that venue as their is here in this one. This forum and the people here are pretty open minded and accepting of different opinions and ideas. This is not the case at all over there. If you are suggesting anything other than a 12 step / abstain approach, expect to take alot of flak and potentially banning from the site.

It can honestly be very depressing to read some of the threads over there. To see some of those people suffering the way they are hits me deeply, as I can intimately identify with where they are.

While we may want to help, it's really not possible in that venue.

Q

I carry no candle for that forum, but.........

they state clearly (and for the right reasons IMO) that people should not give medical advice. I suspect that what Loop is doing (i.e. siginificant self-medication, according to a protocol of his own design) is sailing too close to the wind for them.
Let me say that I believe in Loops right to do what he does and talk about it, and I am often amazed (positively) by his energy and passion for helping here. However, it is their forum and their rules. As Lena says - don't be surprised when you get the same reaction as many before you have got.

Of course they're going to be hostile. I spent ten years in the belly
of the beast, had sponsees, was very spiritual, spoke at speaker's meetings,
did *all* of the steps, repeatedly (even the difficult ones that involve
making amends).

The philosophy of the entire program is founded on powerlessness
and the notion that alcoholism is a "soul-sickness": the disease and
spirituality are utterly inseparable, hopelessly convolved.

If you argue with that, you threaten the entire system, and the people in it
are going to feel personally endangered. For instance,
if they start to think that you might be on to something, the other voice will start
with "that's the insanity of the first drink!"... and that is a terrifying
feeling if you believe what they believe. So they are going to react.

I don't think anyone should hold that against them. Some are annoying, yes... but
intolerance is exactly what they expect, and they will label it denial.

What I think would be valuable would be some well-written blogs about TSM, baclofen
and comparisons to the spiritual approach. Calm, well-reasoned arguments
that are sensitive to the prejudices of those under the influence of the
twelve steps and the Rehab Industry.

-Ned