Barry,

I could not have done your aversion therapy with the nal., but I can understand why you did it.

I have had enough nal overs (close to what you experienced) to force my intake down, and now I can say that nal/TSM has my desire for alcohol in a more neutral position.

I admire the fact you went to work after that, for I could not stand (let alone drive) during my nal overs. The thought of doing anything in that condition is something I could not phantom.

I first posted on this board because of my first nal over, for I thought I was going to die and need to go to the E.R. And it was something that had come up in a different post that UK blonde explained she experienced that every time she drank pre-TSM. Even though she drank enough to experience that aversion to alcohol, she said it would go back to it in a couple months and do it all over again. After my third nal over I kept my intake to no more than 3 glasses of wine, for I knew I would get a nal over. UKBlonde said she knew once she drank it would happen, but it never stopped her.

The nal overs didn't squelch my desire for alcohol enough to stop me from drinking, but it did make me slow down and have a limit. I still had that anxiety from not drinking and, when I was back to normal, I would "need" a drink. In the beginning I could only do an AF day with a nal over. I had a lot of triggers that I needed to work through, and I believe taking the nal and drinking helped with those triggers. So I am surprised that just one day of aversion works for you. It is just surprising how different we all are and what works for one doesn't work for the other.

Your posts a like a breath of fresh air, and I do hope you will hang for a while,

Jaba

Jaba I didn't wait months, despite the sickness that my binges brought on, I would still go back drinking, sometimes the following day, sometimes few days, sometimes a week later. Very rare that being ill after drinking stopped me for any length of time. Neither did crashing my car drunk, or any of the other horrible consequences of my drinking.

Once on TSM after a short while I was able to temper my drinking, and indeed avoid it all together if I had a 'bad' night.

barry's contribution here I think is invaluable, it shows the dangers of drinking without Nal.

It does frustrate and pain me to see you going through the throws of what is alcoholism barry, and it so reminds me of why I started TSM, and why I no longer drink full stop. I'm sorry you can't get that happy medium, but I also want to slap you around the head and tell you to stop putting yourself through it.

There is no happy medium for us, and actually not for a lot of people. Nal or no Nal.

I do resent the 'strong/weak man' thing. All women are not homogenous clones, we are individuals with individual minds. My husband has weaknesses, just as I do. His weaknesses are, for me his strength. I do wonder though if you've done a bit of a 'poor me', now that would annoy me!

UKBLONDE,

I am sorry that I misunderstood/remembered what you posted, for I should have reread it...I know I have a bad memory.

I did remember you saying that my nal overs were what your hangovers felt like, and it never stopped you from doing it again.

I agree that Barry drinking without the nal is a fresh reminder of what we are like without nal. And I find it amazing that one episode of aversion is enough to get him to stop drinking, for it took me 3 nal overs to cut down, but I still had that pull.

And I agree about that 'strong/weak' man thing. I love my husband because he is not afraid to show me his weaknesses, and I couldn't be with a man that couldn't. My father was a hard core no emotion type and I refused to marry a man like my father.



I am finding out that this is true for me. I can control myself, but it is so easy to slide back into old habits. The nal is not a cure all; it is helpful to break that addiction, but not those habits. The nal turns the volume of that desire down, but it is still there...manageable, but there. Because that desire is still lingering I could never drink without the nal, for I know it would be disastrous for me.

Does anyone know if that desire ever goes away? Or is that a for life thing if I continue to dabble with drinking with the nal?

My friends that have gone through AA say after 10 years of abstinence it isn't an issue any more, for they have no thoughts or desires.

I mostly don't have any desire for alcohol I do miss getting plastered, but not the booze itself. I'm also repulsed by even the thought of tasting it.

Towards the end of TSM my husband used the analogy of tweaking the lion's tail for my drinking. Eventually I stopped doing that.

Alcoholism is weird because it's so different for each individual, it truly is a personal journey. I still have the desire to drink and in fact on most days I do still because of old habits and also because even on Naltrexone there still is a pleasurable affect of drinking alcohol. But what I have found is that I don't at all what so ever miss getting plastered and in fact enjoy drinking now more then ever because I need to go there like I did before. Now I can actually enjoy the taste of a good beer or glass of wine. In the past I would enjoy it as well but then would have to follow through with 12 more drinks to satisfy the raging opiod maniac inside.

Hey guys, checking in after 14 days AF. Just got my deep sleep back about six days ago -- had been waking up at 3-4 every morning for awhile. Zero cravings or anything like that, and enjoying being abstinent again. I do have to go do Christmas with both sides of the family, but I made it through last year with no problem, so I'm not too worried. Once January hits, that's usually my most self-controlled time of year anyway. Thanks for your support!

P.S. The weak / strong man thing has mainly to do with sexual attraction a wife has for a husband, IMO, regardless of how much they are friends or "soul mates." Yes, women don't generally mind having sensitive men full of problems as husbands, they just generally don't have a passionate sexual attraction for them. This I know from personal experience and having been part of such conversations with a multitude of men, mainly at marriedmansexlife.com

Maybe that is your conclusion talking with men, but (believe it or not) there are some women out there that find it is very sexy for a man to be able to show his vulnerable. I have a high sexual attraction to my husband; however, I just may be that outlier, but this article sums it up for maybe why I feel this way.

http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2 ... ttractive/

My husband travels a lot, and if it was not his openness and letting me in to his thought process (including things that make him look weak) our relationship would not have last. I have trust issues, and without someone being open and honest with all aspects of their life I could not trust them (concealment is a lie).

We are all different, and what one finds attractive another will find a complete turn off, for our differences is what makes the world an exciting place to live in.

Jaba

It's been awhile...a lot has happened since then.

I wanted to share a couple of "ER" stories that kind of shook me up. This guy comes in "run over by a car" -- basically DOA or "FUBAR" as we say (F...ed up beyond all recognition). Turns out, it was a double alcohol tragedy. The guy who died, it turns out, was married and came from another state after he was forcibly evicted from his house by his wife. His wife's reaction to his death was very flat, saying basically that he just sat around and smoke and drank all day. He made his way down to Florida (worst place to "recover" for sure), got super drunk, passed out on a dark, busy street, and got run over. On the flip side, the guy who hit him says he thought he hit a rock. By law, if you're involved in a fatality accident of any kind, you get alcohol tested. He was over the limit, charged with vehicular manslaughter and DUI. It probably would have happened even if he had been sober. As someone who has drank and drove oh so many hundreds of times, it was pretty shocking picturing myself in his shoes.

Another woman, about 52, came in "drunk as ****." 911 was called because she was stumbling around the tourist downtown, scantily clad, acting a fool. Her fiancee came in and pulled me aside. She basically is out of control, and he didn't realize this about her. She sneaks vodka left and right, she's been "banned" (somehow) from local liquor stores, and says she only drinks three minis a day (as a vodka mini man, I was like, "Really? So you never just say three and drink more?"). Her BAC was like .30 (nearly four times the legal limit). I asked her if she wanted to stop drinking, and she had this wild look in her eyes with this mischievious smile and said, slurringly, "No. I lllllove it." This woman was quite beautiful. She had been twice divorced from two wealthy doctors. Her fiancee was a successful trial lawyer. He basically told me flat out that he was going to leave her at the hospital and be done with her.

Anyway...so I'm back to working nights in ERs (hey, it's a living) because my wife found a job here. This place is like drunk city because, at any given time, about half the population is on vacation and ready to party. Bars and fancy breweries everywhere. I don't remember when, but I YET AGAIN chose to start drinking again, probably in January when some relatives visited. YET AGAIN it progressed into my same pattern of sneaking vodka minis starting around 3:00pm and ending around 8:00pm, usually a total of 5 minis or 4 minis and a beer (all without Naltrexone, of course). The other night, I drank six minis and was feeling quite drunk. Got on my bike and started riding around up to the docks and totally wiped out in front of people (my bike slipped on gravel). It was embarassing, I had a big road rash on my arm, etc... The next day, I took 25mg Naltrexone instead of 50mg, and had two minis. I STILL felt like crapola for about 30 hours, but had two really good nights at home playing games with the kids, just having a great time and being joyous.

Right now, I'm trying to drum up some inspiration to stay abstinent. Again, I "feel cured" after the Nal hit as I can easily conjure up the feeling I had during my 16 month abstinence last year. I just lack the motivation. During the 16 months, I was motivated to get my house ready to sell, make extra money, and prepare for the move to Florida. Right now, I don't have too much to motivate me in the positive direction (the via positiva) but only the negative way (via negativa). I'm reading a motivational sobriety book (read "Alcohol Lied to Me" and liked it, now reading "Stop Drinking Start Living" which isn't quite as good). My main thing right now is just how much time alcohol wastes -- basically can't do **** from 1500-2200 every day off -- can't read, can't workout, can't hold meaningful conversations. It's ridiculous.

Thanks for listening!

P.S. New Spotify recommendation = "Shaman Journey" by Silvia Nakkach. Good companion to "Moses Code Meditation" for reflective sobriety walks at night.

Glad you checked in again Barry. I jsut got back from a trip to Florida. My wife and I go almost every year during spring break, she's a prof so she gets the week off too. Anyway we go to a more quite place, not the college drunk fests

None the less it's the first Florida trip that I didn't get ripped every night and didn't even hide a bottle of vodka or anything. Thanks to TSM I have no need nor desire to do such things. I still drank every night on 25mgs of Naltrexone but stayed sober the entire time. Things like this are good tests for me because I'd usually rip it up on such a vacation. I also noticed other improvements like for example just not caring nor having to 'prepare' to drink. In the past if we got caught out late in traffic or something like that I'd start freaking out because I need to get to my stable place to start drinking. That is no longer an issue for me. In the past I would have to control any situations that took me away from my drinking time. Long walk on the beach? Sure no problem becasue now I don't have to get back and drink.

Working the ER must be a trip.

Good to hear from you Barry,

It sounds like you have a high stress job, but I am sure it pays the bills.

I really hate to ask (and maybe you already said), but why haven't you tried committing TSM?

I just hate to hear that you are having issues again; however, you need to do what works for you.

I wish you the best and we are always hear to listen.

Thanks for the read list.

Jaba