How goes the battle, Zeke?

Joe, All......

I'm sorry I left you hanging 6-7 months ago.... It wasn't intentional but what ended up happening is I got disgusted enough with myself, that I believe I quit over a weekend and I was so busy at work I just didn't check back in.

Very sorry, because I don't want anyone that weighed in to think that I didn't care or didn't appreciate the advice.

So I'm back. I think I was sober all summer long except for 3-4 nights in July on vacation where I had 4-several drinks, but had no real issues. Maybe I needed a beer or tablespoon of vodka just to ease the slide back onto the wagon.

I went to an event I attend most every year which is basically 2 weeks of vacation, and "partying". I did pretty good. I think I only really got "drunk" one night. The rest I moderated well, out of respect for the hell I would be in for if I didn't. So I had a beer here, a shot there, beer on ice, was careful and enjoyed myself, and the day after having more than I should I just tapered off like I have been the past few years whenever I drank.

I got home in September and didn't drink for a month. Had no interest in it. New project at work comes up, outside my comfort zone, and I start cheating. Now, I'm proud that I haven't been cheating worse, like out of control, but I've been in this ridiculous loop where I'm detoxing (lightly, because I don't believe in cold turkey ever again) once a week-ish. Ridiculous!! It's still unpleasant for a few days, even though it's not really that bad. Mostly because I may drink, like 2-4 airplane bottles of spirits and a few strong IPAs, maybe a lager and end up taking a lager to bed with my 3 ounce glass. I measure the amount I need, I'll drink one glass and wait 20-30 minutes to see if I need another. I find, that this avoids the roller coaster where you drink enough to elevate/stimulate your mood, and if you do that you're not tapering as fast as you would otherwise.

Last night I was agitated, and despite having felt great after 3 sober days, I stopped and got 4 airplane bottles, 2 strong beers, and a 6 pack of lager. The little man saying "you deserve a pick me up, blank it, we'll be fine tomorrow"

I had 4 shots spirits, 32 oz 6.0% beer, and one lager. it took a can of beer to get thru the night, maybe two.... I drank 6 or 9 oz beer before I left for work, and nursed two shot bottles of vodka thru the day..... It's fairly painless, I feel fine, and I feel dirty though sneaking the booze, but I never get a buzz and just keep from falling apart...

So, long way to say I'm baaaaack..... I haven't tried the Naltrexone and I don't have a good reason. Maybe I love the feeling of that first two drinks so much that I'm afraid to lose it?

Have any of you felt this way?

I don't have some of the family pressure most of you have. I'm alone most of the time these days. I think the lack of booze and my anxiety are to blame. It's like I have to steel my reserve to go out sober into the world where everyone else can do what they want.

Heck, what if it is just my AUD that cause me to feel like this? I should do something to get rid of it, right? But I'm 46, eligible, and single - how will I meet a wife and live the rest of my life with this effing monkey on my back?

I read the earlier posts and I was shocked at what I read. the last time I checked in, what I had to drink at work in a day was shocking!! And all just to keep from detox on the job? Effing Yikes!!

As much as I love being high, it only last a few drinks or maybe a few hours, and now that I'm chemically dependent the downsides are def outweighing the few hours of bliss. I slept like crap last night, the day after I finally slept good for the first time in a week.

I'm gonna get a prepaid credit card at WalMart this weekend, and I'm gonna ordre the NAL.

C3 says there is a doc about 70 miles away, but I'm not sure I need that to get started. Thoughts?

My docs are aware I've had alcohol problems, but I fear that repeated visits for this will hurt me somehow. Am I crazy?

for now, I'm hanging in there.. I finally watched one little pill, and i'm not really bingeing like crazy like I used to. I'm older and like I said, the previous posts I read where I had to drink several drinks to get thru a work day, well that is beyond unacceptable. An airplane bottle or two once in a while I'm willing to accept if I must. But I want it to end.

Thanks for your support so far, I am sorry I haven't followed thru.

Zk

I think it's entirely valid to see if you can moderate without meds. That's really the best way to go if you can manage it.

I suppose you could just tell the doc you want to keep it a private matter, no SSN, etc. Mine was used to that and didn't take insurance anyway. I used GoodRx.com to get a discount at a local pharmacy, the whole thing... doc, pills for 5 months, blood tests all came in at under $500. I suppose it would be about the same if you went the overseas route.

In any case, it sounds like you're ready to pull the trigger on this, so let us know how you do! Are you saying you have a social anxiety issue to work through too? That might be one of the benefits of working with a doc, they can suggest other meds that can be supportive.

Thanks Joe.

I hope I haven't given the wrong impression.

The only "moderation" I'm able to do, is that I'm 99% unwilling to ever endure a full scale detox ever again. So doing a 3 day serious drunk is not something I'm willing to chance. Having said that, I still WANT that lovin' feeling, and I'm afraid that if I continue with the cheating one of these days someone at work might notice it on my breath when I'm sipping tablespoons of vodka every few hours to stay right.

I'm grateful for the respite from deprivation syndrome that I get from a little vacation from sobriety, but I really think that the deprivation syndrome is what keeps me alone and locked in my house on the weekends and after work. I want to be out there partying and I know that I can't. So TV has become my best friend and I don't like how I live. It doesn't feel right and doesn't feel healthy, but I def seem to be developing a social anxiety - I can overcome it, but really don't fully relax and enjoy myself without my companion.

In the beginning of my posts, everyone said "well don't hop off the wagon just to try getting back on with NAL" and I think that cautionary tale mostly comes from one's own experience. I think some of you are still at the point where you want to drink less, but if you drink a bottle of whiskey you have a bad hangover, not an extremely unpleasant detox to deal with. That is my motivator to keep it from getting stupid, even high as a kite I know better than to do that to myself.

Or some might end up in jail if they drink. I don't have any of those kinds of traits so far, just the physical dependence which is a real life barrier.

At this point, I'm already off the wagon, though I didn't drink much this time and plan to taper off tonight and tomorrow and I do not plan to drink again till I get my NAL. But I don't fear the next time I drink. In fact, in secret I'll be looking forward to it the day after I wake up not needing a drink.

I think I just want extinction to happen. I don't mind having medication as a crutch so long as it affords me the ability to drink a beer when I want one, and keeps me from feeling so good that I have to have another, and so on. I want to stop feeling weird at family events where everyone else is having cocktails and a great time, and I can't have one. (though probably I won't be drinking in front of my folks again, even with NAL... I'm not sure they believe in anything but AA)

For those just tuning in, I don't really want to be a tee-totaller. I haven't had anything bad in my life happen from drinking! No DUIs, no losing jobs, etc.... I also do not have a wife or kids, so there's nobody saying "if you ever drink again we're leaving". But I became physically dependent, and having my body tell me when it needs a drink is bullshit. I don't like it, and has completely changed my life of one without boundaries to one where I live in this little box where I can't have a drink. Or if I am drinking, I have to drink a beer in the morning to get right for work, and sip little bottles of vodka all day so nobody can tell. That is also living in a box.

If it works for me like it has worked for some, I'll either never drink again and won't give a care, or I'll have a few beers now and again with NAL and won't care. But stress and or feeling good or whatever triggers me to feel I need a drink should diminish as a trigger right?

Thanks for the support!

Zk

It sounds like you gave moderation a go though and I think it's important to find out if that works out for you or not. The moderation skills can be brought in to TSM, as conscious control is important to the method.

In any case, I'm glad to hear you're focused on a way forward and I hope to read your progress reports soon!

thanks. I'm ridiculously scientific about my so called "slip-ups" Like any scientific alcoholic, I know how long it's gonna take me to taper off so I don't have a bad detox based on how much I drink, but the lingering effects of the process seem to be getting longer even though I'm going "less far" over the line.

Writing is on the wall, I will always love the taste of booze but I'm willing to let the highs become a thing of the past if it will return me to the person I was before I was addicted!

I could probably try harder on the moderation, IF I had a reason. Where I live right now, is so lame I would want to hit the bars anyway, and I'd probably run into family. I do it in secret which I'm not interested in doing anymore. If the cravings were gone, I'd be working out right now instead of drinking a few IPAs and a few little bottles of bourbon.

I'll try to get motivated to get the NAL in the next few weeks before the holidays.

thanks

ZK

When I first attended college I was a chemistry major. I had since changed that to geology and went on to become a geologist but I'd swear deep in the heart of every alcoholic is a young and budding chemist because we sure do have a natural ability to understand it when it comes to fending off the hard detox

"the lingering effects of the process seem to be getting longer even though I'm going "less far" over the line"

Yes it does and it will only get worse.

Most people at first sort of fear starting TSM because they will have to be giving something up. They are giving up a very big part of their life, a very good friend, a lover. But honestly since I have started TSM I have enjoyed drinking so much more then before. The only thing that I miss out on is the relief of the cure from the poisoning of the day before. When you drink as much as I did then you are sick the entire next day awaiting your magical cure. As your body and mind and soul come to their breaking point and you tip over that first drink of the day the elixir flows through your body curing all of your ills as it mixes that false feeling of pleasure with the reality that is addiction come full circle. Smokers know of this too. The only reason they smoke is because they smoke. The only reason I drink is because I drank and drinking causes the physical and mental break down that only drinking can cure.

So now that that is gone I have never enjoyed drinking so much in my life. You still get a sort of buzz in the form of relaxation and of course if you like IPA's then you get to enjoy a good IPA but you don't no longer have to chase it to hell and back.

This is what I'm looking forward to... The writing is on the wall.

I think the best part of where I'm at now, is that I know better than to drink very much, because I know it'll take me 3 days of tapering to sober up. I can do it faster, but not without pissing my body off a little more. Doing it slow is the way.

I would not recommend anyone that is in the physically dependent stage to "cold turkey" it. Very hard on body and mind. I think why we do it, is we get so disgusted and finally the "NO MORE!" switch flips.

I called a doctor friend of mine (lives across the country now) and he told me that as an ER doctor he's seen this alot and suggested I don't quit cold turkey. I wanted to but was having a hard time. So I was doing as he suggested till my brother arrived to take me to my doctor. Well..... I went to my doctor with my brother the first time (I say first time, but I stopped many other times before and had to deal with the anxiety of detox - I didn't realize at the time it would have been easier to taper) and anyway, the doc said "well if you're going to quit, then quit." He gave me some librium, and not nearly enough (only 3x daily) and I had the most miserable few days ever.

I wish I had not done that, the following year was really hard on me. I only cold-turkeyed it one more time, I had my first vacation from the wagon about 5 months later, and I didn't even attempt moderation. I wanted and felt like I needed oblivion, and so I went there. It's wasn't completely intentional either.

Ever since that second time, I got smart and if I decide I'm going to take a vacation I try to do it as moderately as possible and make sure I have enough time to taper it off. Not saying I've been 100% successful, as it has taken me a few airplane bottles a tablespoon at a time to get thru the workday, which I hate.

The thing I hate the most about it, is that I'd probably be fired for it if I got caught. But what nobody would understand is I'm not doing it to get high at work, I'm only doing it to keep my symptoms at bay. And heck, a little sip and I'm back to work being productive. It's that shame that everyone feels they have to dole out to those of us with AUD....

So yeah, as an engineer I'm definitely a budding chemist with my body. I'm not saying that I'm in control here, what I'm doing is keeping the deprivation syndrome under control. That first and a half I was sober, I had it bad because alcohol was my medicine for my anxiety, so I wasn't even myself. Not even close. I'm a little closer to understanding what's happening, and getting myself back. And realizing that when tapering, a full unit of alcohol is much too big. Maybe not for the first day after a bender, but drinking whole drinks to taper will just make you want more.....

When I first came here I was afraid to get the NAL and purposely slide off the wagon; many of you cautioned me against it because I'm guessing your own experiences booze. Thankfully, I had already gotten sober a few times, and was scared enough of cold turkey that I figured I could keep it together.

Having taken several vacations now, I'm ready to try it. I still don't plan to drink every day or drink till my brain shuts it off. That will be part of the experiment, to note how I'm feeling, but I still will only come home with a few pints, a few shots, and a few little bottles of vodka for the following day.

I tapered over the weekend, I've had three 3 ounce glasses of beer today and I will probably have two more. By tomorrow I will probably be in the clear. Maybe one in the am and one in the evening.....

I'll try to get the cash card in the next few days and order the NAL. I'm not planning to drink anytime soon but it is the holidays, and if I'm going to do it I might as well be doing some good as well.

Thanks,

Zeke, I don't know if you've seen it yet, but here's the link to CThree's "Find a Physician" page if you want to take a shot a getting a local doc:

http://www.cthreefoundation.org/find-a-physician.html

The "Verified" ones know how to prescribe per TSM.

One guy even went into an urgent care clinic and managed to get a prescription that way. Docs are more familiar with someone telling them they currently aren't drinking and they need Nal for daily use, to cut the cravings. Most docs don't know about TSM.

If you get a local prescription, you can use GoodRx.com to get a discount at a local pharmacy. I stuck with a larger chain and they didn't have any problem with it. Neither the doc or the pharmacy got my SSN, I did everything out of pocket.

I'm still thinking about calling the "local" doc.... I wish I knew if there was a real reason whether or not to keep it off the books, so to speak. Is it that this will be on the permanent record, or what? My docs already know that I've had alcohol problems, does that mean that the gov't and everyone else does also?

I do have hypertension but it's 100% managed with meds at the moment. But it sounds like you think I should def see this doc before taking it?

Thanks

Zeke