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dreadnought54321 · **Joined:** Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:08 pm **Posts:** 55

bob3d, and I would also qualify what you said about suseptable. That suseptibility is the disease with the genetic basis. And yes people who are born with the disease can always have that learned behavior with drinking.

dreadnought54321 · **Joined:** Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:08 pm **Posts:** 55

minneapolisnick wrote:

The whole theory behind TSM is that alcoholism is a learned behavior. The first several chapters explain how alcoholism is, in fact, learned. If you are really interested in this, get the book, it explains it far better than I have so far. But the reason you become un-addicted through TSM is that you continue to drink, but the positive reinforcement (endorphins) are blocked at a subconscious level, and ultimately you no longer associate drinking with a positive experience. This, somewhat ironically, in spite of the fact you still get a buzz on naltrexone. You should read the book, or check the passages included on this board as it lays it out far better and more convincingly than I have here.

The buzz is different on naltrexone and it's hard to explain. You should search this site, it's been discussed at length on other threads. For me, I get relaxed, I get a buzz, but I am more focused and more in control. The euphoria factor is reduced, but not so much that it bothers me. For example, I like to dance, but only if I'm buzzed on alcohol. And I have no problem dancing and having fun while drinking on naltrexone.

I apologize for my prior posts where I agreed that you were here to just stir up trouble. I see now that you have a real interest, so I'll do my best to answer your questions.

Thanks, I told you Im not here to just argue. """but the positive reinforcement (endorphins) are blocked at a subconscious level, and ultimately you no longer associate drinking with a positive experience. This, somewhat ironically, in spite of the fact you still get a buzz on naltrexone"""....this is what puzzles me. And I will get that book. Actually the endorphins would be blocked on a chemical level and yes you would no longer associate drinking with the positive feeling. I know that after a few drinks I get a buzz. after a few more, I start to feel even better and after a whole lot, then Im feeling extremly good. I will search the site too.

I am guess there are different levels of what constitutes feeling good and If I can feel as good as I do after a whole lot of drinking while on it, then maybe its for me.

minneapolisnick · **Joined:** Tue May 19, 2009 2:17 pm **Posts:** 1793

Trust me, I became an alcoholic for one reason: I like the feeling of being buzzed. I never liked the taste of alcohol and ONLY drank for effect. You will still get a buzz on naltrexone. Some say they get buzzed easier; some say it just takes more drinks; some say the buzz is the same; others say the buzz is different in that they have more control; but NO ONE SAYS, screw this, I'm not getting a sufficient buzz so I'm tossing out the naltrexone. It just doesn't happen. I hope you read the book and try it, it will probably do wonders for you. Read the posts of the cured, they are not bull****. Welcome.

N101CS · **Posted:** Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:44 pm

Quote:

There have not been studies done because you cant prove or disprove a negative

Not to nitpick, but you can disprove a negative. You only have to show one instance of the positive and the negative is disproven.

Dogs are never spotted: A single instance of a spotted dog disproves the statement.

dreadnought54321 · **Joined:** Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:08 pm **Posts:** 55

N101CS wrote:

Quote:

There have not been studies done because you cant prove or disprove a negative

Not to nitpick, but you can disprove a negative. You only have to show one instance of the positive and the negative is disproven.

Dogs are never spotted: A single instance of a spotted dog disproves the statement.

In general, proving or disproving a negative revolves around the ability to gain facts on the total set of possible outcomes.If one establishes that a coin must land on either heads or tails, but not both then it would be possible to make provable negative statements about the coin. A coin with its heads side facing up does not also have its tails side facing up.

A study or a set of studies about addiction is not a universal truth like an either/or with the coin argument.

minneapolisnick · **Joined:** Tue May 19, 2009 2:17 pm **Posts:** 1793

Man, and I thought I liked to argue...

dreadnought54321 · **Joined:** Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:08 pm **Posts:** 55

minneapolisnick and AJ_ thank you for both of your posts. I am still confused though a bit. I am getting that it doesnt affect the euphoria but the craving/urges. I am guessing that over time I would have the same level of euphoria with less and less drinks, kind of like a reverse tolerance? As in, I need to drink more to get the same effect. So as I drank less, my tolerance level would come down and I could get the same euphoric feeling from say, 3 drinks, instead of 13 drinks? and yea. I like to debate, AND learn.

lena · **Joined:** Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:07 pm **Posts:** 929

Dreadnought -- I've got an idea. We'll keep doing TSM. You don't, if you don't want to.

minneapolisnick · **Joined:** Tue May 19, 2009 2:17 pm **Posts:** 1793

Not really dread. You will still get a buzz but the buzz is a little different and it depends upon the person. But you won't want to quit naltrexone because you can't get a buzz.

dreadnought54321 · **Joined:** Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:08 pm **Posts:** 55

lena wrote:

Dreadnought -- I've got an idea. We'll keep doing TSM. You don't, if you don't want to.

Oh for cryin out loud, I said Bacon and Eggs!

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