Lo0p, I don't think it will need to be retracted. Hopefully it will be a good history of how TSM worked in all our lives. I think the response from Dr. Sinclair that I just bookmarked comes close to answering some of the more recent questions.

Another good reply from Dr. Eskapa:

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=78

LoOp --

You are addressing a separate issue from the one I've addressed. I agree that I may very well be dealing with another trigger that needs to be extinguished. However, that was not the primary point of my post.

The primary point of my post relates to the issue of how long TSM takes to work. In three months I will be at eight months, which would only prove my primary point further: namely, that the three to four month period for the cure is wildly off the mark for most of us on this board. A secondary point of my post is that the length of our addiction and the amount we drink will probably be directly related to how long it takes for us to have our cravings controlled/reduced.

It is possible that a third point of my post -- that TSM may always require some sort of effort on our part, at least for certain triggers -- is off the mark. Only time will tell about that one.

I think we're all pretty much on board with that. And yeah, the book should be revised to avoid a bad rap.

Yeah, I'm also done with the term "cured". That is just not the way this has gone down for me. I will say, though that my life is now not only manageable, but GREAT, and I have tsm to thank for it.

I remember one time years ago I had this friend who was telling me about all of the stupid things I had done the night before. "Dude" he said, shaking his head, "looking at you I could tell there was no one at the helm." I just loved that description "no one at the helm" because it was so perfect. Here's my body, what's left of my brain, my life, my everything careening drunkenly through the night with no one at the helm but the beast on nine shots of tequila.

And that is the difference right there between me now and me pre tsm - now there is always someone at the helm. Even when I choose to drink, even if I have more than I had wanted to, there is still someone at the helm. That is why stupid **** doesn't happen to me anymore, and that's why my ship is moving again in a definite and positive direction.

Well said firebird. I guess I like the word cured in that it goes against the pkilosophy that alcoholism cannot be cured held onto by 12 steps and other such stuff.
As far as I am concerned, per my faith, my higher power can cure anything. My HP is bigger than yours, na, na, nana, na. I do believe that if I get to low enough levels and it can be sustained, comfortably, for my whole life, with some flubs along the way, that will be a cure. Even normal drinkers have their off times. The difference is is that it is not an effort to return to normal controlled drinking. So maybe for us our off times will be longer in the beginning?? We don't really know yet. Maybe after a few longer spikes, firebird and others will get back to when they said "cured". And maybe those times will get shorter as you progress? We don't know.
Like I said before, the fact that I have cut down so much makes me ecstatic. I believe it is getting better by the moment. Most of us have agreed that our lives are changing for the better. All this added up and drinking under more and more control, don't know how I can't call it a cure for me. It is much better than the raging alcoholic that used to drink himself to oblivion on most nights. I also disagree with the healthy levels idea. That is like saying most Americans eat healthy levels of fast food or watch healthy levels of TV. I don't buy it. I guess I am not necessarily shooting for healthy levels all the time, more like normal levels. Abstinence would be great if I so choose. Not 100% my target though.

Rapper, I think we're in agreement. As far as I'm concerned, although I will still strive for lower levels of drinking, I have been cured of my addiction. It's just that my "cure" would never fly by "societal standards", and it could give naysayers something to latch on to as they try to discredit TSM. I don't really give a **** what they think, as my life is between the Great Spirit and myself, and between us this thing is working just fine. However, the term "cured" was carrying an implication that the work was all done, and I had nothing further to achieve through TSM. And that is simply not true.

By leaving that term behind, I feel like I'm free to keep working and growing as a person - even one who likes to have a drink now and again - and I don't have to worry about fulfilling any other person's definition of what it means to be free of addiction. I can just keep getting better, using the tools that TSM has given me, and what ever label anyone else wants to put on it is fine. Labels are human inventions - useful in their place - but not a substitute for conscious awareness of what is going on in your life.

For me TSM has been a complete success. I just need to make sure that the definition of success resides with me, and not in somebody else's external value system.

Nick I swear you hit the nail damn near on the head for me with that post.

For weeks now, somthing has really been bothering me, just before springrider came and gave us his caveat for the "cured" state. Its like I saw glimpses of what life was going to be like at the supposed "cured" point. (Its not what I originally pictured) What I saw was me taking my pill anytime an hour before I drank, and always having that thought there, that caution sign, almost a red light warning that just needs to be there. Or run the risk of old habits. And I have to say, habits.

Has anyone here forgotten how to ride a bike? No? Me either. There is a big scar on the face of our lives that is the result and a big reminder of our alcoholism, its always going to be there. You can try to cover it up with make up, but its still there, and youll see it everytime you look in the mirror. Maybe, so we dont forget.......we just need to look in the mirror, to analyze ourselves, where are we, who are we, where have we been, and why am I here now?

Hopefully in time the answer will be "I am who I want to be. I am here because I chose this path, and my concious decisions are what led me here. This is where I want to be." But that scar will be a reminder of how things were and could be again. Meaning, just be careful.

Like Ive been saying for some time now, I dont think Ill ever use the word "cured" as it pertains to TSM and my AL addiction. But then again, what is cured?

Maybe we dont know the true definintion of the word "cured".

1. Restoration of health; recovery from disease.
2. A method or course of medical treatment used to restore health.
3. An agent, such as a drug, that restores health; a remedy.
4. Something that corrects or relieves a harmful or disturbing situation: The cats proved to be a good cure for our mouse problem.


Hmm restoration of health.....relief from a harmful or disturbing situation?

Id have to say that TSM has given me the above. I am relieved, and I certainly feel heathly, especially my mental health, significantly more healthy than I was pre TSM. That monkey, I feel, is off my back, but the elephant is still in the room.

Do I have urges or cravings? Yes, but they are easily pushed aside and forgotten if I have somthing more compelling to do, and believe me, there does come a point where you will find more compelling activities. And if I dont, just a bit of will power allows me to find somthing else to do. I have found myself wondering why I took my pill, and that I didnt really want to drink.

My wife is amazed, she is happy now that WE have somewhat more of a social life again.

So really, what is it your looking for? and what expectations did you have when entering TSM? Maybe when you hit that point, you can say "cured". Where "cured" is just another part of the journey that just keeps on going, only the "cured" part is where you gain enough control over what ever it is that ails you and you are able to start fixing, or improving those parts of your life that should be worked on. Isnt life a journey? Journey to me means your going somewhere. So figure out where you want to go, when and if you get there, pick another place. Hell, see the world.

In reference to the book and expectations; I did not read the book! This forum is my book! Reading the internet and this forum was enough to convince me. So I didnt really come into TSM with a 3-4 month expectation. I just believe the science. That eventually this habit will be broken. (I doubt it will be forgotten though) When I found this forum I read every damn post here, and eventually locked on to certain peoples situations that best related to mine. This helped alot, but I knew, not everything would be the same. Oh and guess what? I dont really even track my drinks. I started to in the beginning just because everyone else was doing it, but Im not really interested in if I drank 2 or 5 beers, rather how was my ability to control myself in any drinking situation? Ill know when I drank too much. (keep in mind Im a binge drinker)

I was told about TSM by another person (a self proclaimed 24/7 fall down drunk) who used TSM among many other things to become abstinent. What I specifically remember him saying was TSM was ONE of the things that helped him become abstinent, I think he said he did TSM for over a year. It wasnt the only thing he used.

What if we applied some other helpful forces along with TSM? Would that hurt? Postive reinforcement, negative reinforcement? Shock therapy? As its been said before, we are truely pioneers here, why not develop this thing further? When trying for that AF day, at what level craving did you give in? At what level craving did you not give in? How hard did you try to avoid the craving? Was it a 10 or a 2? And what helped you to say no to that craving? What other things can help you say no to that craving? Taking the pill helps kill a habit, but I think we need to build new habits to replace that bad habit. Small steps, but keep taking them.

Again, what is your goal? To not have the urge to drink again? To be able to moderate? My opinion on moderation is that your going to always have to be aware of what has happend in the past and what could happen again. And if its abstinence, we are going to have to develop some tools to use, I think there will always be the memory of that habit, some sort of craving, but mangeable. There will be slip ups, everyone has them, even "normal" drinkers. The great thing is, you have TSM.

Key points: This is a journey, longer for some. Develop mental tools to aid will power. Be mindful of your addiction past or present tense. Creat new habits. Be proactive!

And for any of the AA Defenders of the Faith and the White Knucklers Society reading this, if AA is what keeps you sober, great. But dont knock this process because it goes against your belief, remember, your just one drink away from disaster, and I am not. I used to be, but not anymore. Thank you TSM for that!

Morale of the story? Cured is in the eye of the beholder.

(Holy smokes, I never thought of myself as long winded )

*The above is just my opinion, no offense is intended, and is subject to change after each drinking session.

Hap - I do believe you've got it!