Many of us have done things we are not proud of while drinking. It's part and parcel of alcohol addiction.

I don't view it as bragging when someone recounts irresponsible -- or worse -- behavior on this board. That includes this thread. I see it as a cautionary tale, shared to remind us to avoid such behavior at all cost. I admire the courage of Nick in disclosing his bad behavior and promoting discussion about the folly of driving after drinking. You too, Firebird.

Our lives are chock full of those who stand ready to judge and condemn us for things we've done. The guilt and shame we imppose on ourselves is a prime motivator for many of us to find an escape from the clutches of alcohol addiction. That search is what brought us together here. I hope this board offers a safe harbor for us if we choose to unburden ourselves about our misdeeds in an effort to mend our ways and our lives.

Let's be gentle with one another here.

Lena, I absolutely agree, have had 43 stiches in my chin due to drunk driving years ago, hit a pole, totaled my car and thus began my anxiety disorder. Nothing to be proud of but a reminder never to drive drunk! I think these stories are good to review so that we are ever mindful never to do it again! Scary stuff. Do not judge lest ye be judged!

Well said, lena!

I guess what I left out of my earlier post here, was how irresponsible and shameful my conduct was when I was drinking uncontrollably. I am not proud of it at all or even ambivalent, but truly ashamed. I think all of us here have gone through great lengths to stop this insanity. That is why we are undergoing this treatment. We recognized the problem before we killed ourselves or others. And we have tried and abandoned other non-productive treatments, but we kept on trying. We never gave up our conviction to be free of this addiction and that's something we can be proud of.

It is also easy to fall into the trap of judging the actions from another time and culture by the standards we have today. I recall when my father was stopped for driving drunk several times in the 1960's, he was never arrested, he was just told by the police to go straight home and sleep it off. It was a different time with different moral values. Just like when I was in my 20's in Florida, they had stores where you could go to a drive-up window, get a cold beer and drive away drinking it and it wasn't even illegal. Unbelievable, by today's standards, but part of life 30 years ago. To me that is just as irresponsible as watching someone today in 2009 composing a text message while driving their car; still not illegal in Florida, but irresponsible nonetheless. One day in the future, we'll look back at driving and cellphone use and condemn all the actions that are common on the highways today.

Regarding admitting to wrongdoing on this forum, I'll not condemn another's actions that they are not proud of, because I still bear irresponsible actions of my own that I may commit even now. I don't think anyone here is ready for sainthood. I know I'm not. One of the problems of posting text is that you can't read the body language and emotions of the person posting the story. I remember in AA, telling stories from the past and the present was a part of every meeting and was a form of "confession". The stories told were not to condone the activity, but rather to learn lessons from, and bring us closer together because many of us had the same stories to tell. I never got the impression that anyone was condoning those activities because along with the story, you saw the shame and remorse in the face of the person telling it.

In summary, I'd like to see folks here continue to be open and honest, so we can support each other.

Bob

My initial reaction to Tuttle's post was, "My opinion of Tuttle has changed too; he or she is not that smart. Anyone who read my post and concluded that I am condoning drunk driving is obtuse." BUT, then I thought about it more, and I too, had very mixed feelings about raising this issue when I posted it, worried that some people might misinterpret my point. Which is why I offered two follow-up posts to make it absolutely clear that I agree with you Tuttle: if you drink and drive you are an idiot, plain and simple. So Tuttle, I can see why you read this thread with some ambivalence because I actually had some of your same concerns when I posted it. That being said, if you have read my other posts, you know one thing about me: I am brutally honest and I speak my opinion. That is true to a fault -- if I see something and object to it, I'll speak my mind, even if it makes me unpopular or even despised. Say what you want about me -- some like me, others don't -- but you will never be able to accuse me of not being completely open and honest about where I stand on any issue. The FACT of the matter is that if you suffer from an alcohol problem, then unless you are a quadropalegic or don't have access to a motor vehicle, then you have certainly had a few drinks and gotten behind the wheel at some point in your life. I defy one person here to say they haven't done it. As I indicated in my initial post, I used to do it routinely. The whole point of my post -- which was too subtle for at least one reader to catch -- is that I am a thoughtful, law-abiding, reflective human being. I have spent most of my adult life working as an advocate for disadvantaged people. I have a very huge social conscience. But my alcohol-induced fog stripped that away from me; it brainwashed me into thinking that somehow, drinking and driving was acceptable. And it did so in a subtle, nefarious way, that prevented an otherwise thoughtful human being from seeing the blatant stupidity of his conduct. That is the true evil of excessive alcohol -- it makes us behave in bad ways that completely fly in the face of our sensibilities when sober, often without our even being aware of it. That was the point of my post, not that drunk driving is cool. I'm actually glad you spoke your mind Tuttle -- it gave me the chance to clarify my point that could have been lost on others as well.

Time ... time is a wonderful thing for us humans.
Time gives us a chance to reflect, which is what I have been doing.
I've been reflecting on my comments about minneapolisnick's drink driving.
I now know that what I did was inappropriate and I regret my post.
I have learnt some important lessons as a result.
I will not make any excuses or offer any explanations in my defense.
I hope it will be suffice to say that I am sorry for my actions, in particular for "abusing" another member and I promise that it will never happen again.
Sorry Nick.

Oh, tuttle that was a very nice, heartfelt sentiment, and thank you for it, but you need to be gentle with yourself as well. Your post was sharing a spontaneous thought and it sparked some very good discussion. That's the flip side of being gentle to one another.

Lena, well said. We are all here for the same reason. I doubt any one of this on this board could say we have NEVER drove under the influence. Alcohol impairs your judgement so much that people DO sit behind the wheel and think they're okay to drive. I don't think anyone here has made light of drinking and driving. Firebird's story was a very well-written chronicle about drinking and driving during the 80s in rural Montanas. As we all know, drunk driving is taken much more seriously now. As Lena said, we all have enough judgement and criticism in our everyday life. For me, this board is a place I can feel safe, I can be honest, and I can count on support. And Nick, I don't think any different of you. If anything, I admire your candor. I didn't get that you were condoning drinking and driving, quite the opposite.

I'm definitely NOT making light of drinking and driving. I was just trying to show how it sometimes takes an overall attitude shift to change behavior. And like I said, I don't drink and drive now under any circumstances. It just took a while for me to get that it is unthinkable.

PS - if is interesting how the board (software) censors **** but not f***ing

Tuttle:

No worries whatsoever my friend. You thought someone might be making light of drunk driving -- an incredibly foolish act -- and you spoke your mind. I respect you for that. There is never any need to apologize for an honest disagreement of opinions. That being said, we were on the same page the whole time. Welcome to the TSM board.

Nick

This thread just demonstrated what makes this board so great: disagreements turn to discussions where everyone can learn something. Opinions are expressed, revised, attenuated and re-expressed with greater understanding. Tuttle, your point was well taken, your apology gracious. Nick, you have proven yourself to be a classy guy and all around righteous individual.

Cheers all