Hey Bob, guess I was just stupid because I have gone over to Smart after you mentioned it to see what it was all about and knowing that you thought it was good. I have gone to chat there and spoke up about tsm but didn't push it. People were rather receptive. Most had not heard of us. I really hadn't read much there before I chatted.. I didn't have a problem at all, dumb luck I guess.

Hi elfern,

I think Schema Therapy has some valuable things to say on this subject. BTW, a schema is the lens through which one sees oneself and the world around oneself; it is a set of core beliefs, shaped by one's childhood. Dr Jeffrey E Young and Dr Janet S Klosko in their book Reinventing Your Life have identified eleven different schemas that can adversely affect an individual in adulthood. Furthermore, the authors talk about three different coping styles, one of which is to escape these adverse effects. And this is where alcohol fits into the picture; it helps us to escape unpleasant feelings. I know for a fact that this is why I have turned to alcohol. Of course, the problem in doing this is that it can develop into alcohol dependence, as in my case.

All the very best,

V.

Virgil I see you're onto a rather different approach there .
It seems to make sense what you say ,or it does make sense if you take alcohol out of the picture for a moment . The schemas sound ratherl ike what Firestone
calls " the fantsy bond " formed in childhood ways we protect ourselves learned when young . Then when you put Alc back in it may well fall into place as a learned behaviour to cope but when the addiction sets in I fear the biological force carries us . I see it like two floors in a building that run parallel one is the biological desire for alc that demands to be fed ( every day ? ) in the other is the viscissitudes of life we encounter that stress us and how do we regard it all we make the conclusion
" oh **** look what' happened this is a stressing situation " therefore I drink ...and next day along comes another stressing situation and you do the same , all the situations are interchangeable in their relevance to drinking they are yes stressful and as we drink our interpretation is cause and effect but isn't what is propelling us is the constant biological apetite , haven't we made a false interpretation ?
Hmmm , I wonder . Are you to see a therapist who proposes working by applying the approach you mentioned ? Is it particularly used for addictions do you know ?

AFTER tsm is really the central concern . I find the question interesting whether one can through techniques of RR or Smart strengthen and extend abstinence . And the comment by Lena to the effect that "the hardwired " are effectively helpless without NAL , In my opinion I think one "Can" always go further
I mean some really dire cases do stop and remain permanently abstinent . But this is of incidental interest . Because AFTER tsm is what counts and to then consider going back to pick up RR or Smart tools from a stronger pov .

Hi elfern,

I am already seeing a therapist who, along with other techniques, is applying this approach to myself; I am very excited about it. Schema Therapy is not specifically used for addictions although addictions are included in its field of application; rather, Schema Therapy targets our core beliefs and these determine how we think, feel, act and relate to others.

All the best,

V.

Virgil,
That's great , I hope you continue to enjoy both the process and the results .
Therapy is always a fine thing to do regardless of inevitable pain , always . As I'm
sure you know .
All the best to you .

Hi Been following this thread with interest.As a therapist i operate from a belief that we are a mixture of our physiology, psychology,spirituality. I have been increasingly interested in developments in neuroscience but i do believe we are more than our physiology so therefore maybe we need to explore more than simply solutions which rely on our biochemistry.Afterall thats what the phsycopharmachemical industry trys to tell us. Look at the anti-depressant industry!. To me brain, mind and consciousness are linked but not the same. So some of us may be born with a particular genetic makeup which leads us to be more susceptible to finding alcohol a neat fit. BUT there is no proof. Its about the old chicken and egg- our experience changes our biology- for example Stan Grof has found some evidence that certain types of birth experience/trauma predict the type of substance we are attracted to later in life. Basically we are instinctively attracted to the type of drug which reminds us of that very early experience- i.e if our mothers were drugged we may be attracted to narcotic type substances.
Furthermore learned behaviour changes our neurobiology. E.g depression reduces the size of our hypothalamus and daily meditation increases it! i am still absolutely interested in how tsm will work to change my way of using alcohol however i don't think that my genetics is the only thing at play- i think the use of alcohol as a way of dealing with certain moods was modeled early on to me as a child so i imagine i will need to learned new methods of dealing with these moods. Finally and i know that this will not be popular on this site but i do believe that we drink because of a deep spiritual void. a 'god shaped hole' if you will. So how do we deal with that with biochemical solutions?

Soul -- Dr. Sinclair would not disagree with you. We were not born alcohol addicts (wish I had time to find the cite in Eskapa's book) -- even the majority of us with the genetic predisposition to alcohol addiction. We got exposed to it and it filled some void, or we would not have continued to drink long enough and hard enough to become addicted.

It will be so much easier for all of us to sort out our other issues once the cloud of alcohol addiction is lifted.