In my life recently I've been very moved and touched by the kindness of some church people toward my daughter who has been in hospital a long while .
It's definately had an effect on the direction of my life although I'm not sure I can take it all on board imediately .
I wanted to see how the subject of alcoholism, so dear to my heart , sat with the church and googled accordingly . I was rather shocked by one site that insisted that
being a christian alcoholic is just not possible and a total contradiction in terms . For owing to their bad behaviour alcoholics can definately expect a very warm welcome in hell .
If this is the case I'm all the more eager that tsm should work affording me a brief respite between one hell and the next .

OMG, this would be funny if it weren't so sad. The concept of 'hell' is so misunderstood. I was a Christian writer for years, but became. . .unwelcome. . .among my editorial/publishing friends when I introduced topics or perspectives that weren't compatible with their particular dogmas.

Fortunately, there are many good Christians who understand that the interpretation of Scripture relating to the subject has been greatly skewed, and that an all-loving God doesn't throw his beloved creation into an eternal place of torment, without hope of redemption.

Perhaps this isn't the place for it, but imagine how many fundamentalists view God's 'mercy.'

1. We are His creation.
2. He has unconditional love for each one of us
3. He sent His Son to die a bloody tortuous death so that those who 'believe' on Him will live eternally
4. This salvation is unconditional
5. Only those who are 'called' to faith will come to believe, and be saved
6. Those who are not called to have faith, will burn eternally in hell. . .they really have no personal say or choice in the matter
7. Well. . .maybe the salvation of those who are called isn't really 'eternal,' as some may 'lose' their faith and be damned again. (The other side of the coin: though a person professed true faith, and lived like a 'real' Christian, they weren't really saved in the first place.)

How can any rational person get their mind set comfortably around this set of doctrines? I think this teaching regarding hell literally frightens people so much that they don't DARE question it, for fear of hell. Sad.

I am always quite surprised that although humankind has developed in humongous leaps and bounds in just about every way possible during the last few hundred years, we still hang onto religious beliefs that were fashioned by folk who were far inferior to us intellectually, thousands of years ago!

Why haven't our religous/spritual beliefs advanced along with everything else?

I do believe in a divine power- but I have a lot of trouble getting my head round that heaven and hell bit! I feel it is all so dated.

Going4 , I don't know what you were proposing the publishers but I'd hope and imagine they were a deal more enlightened than the site i referred to .
Oh (marb) thankfully spiritual values have evolved for many that site were just stuck in a rut flashing out their hate and investing it with divine right .
I dare say my ex doctor would feel compelled to agree with them .

http://evangelicaloutreach.org/drunk.htm

There you go .

Strongly religious people can't change their views any easier than you could cut off a finger. That sounds severe, but it's true in a very literal sense. It's part of our identity, like our possessions tend to become part of our identity for so many of us, and letting go of them can be very emotionally painful. Understandably, we avoid this.

For me, understanding the tenacity of the more severe forms of religious belief involves understanding memetics. What is it about intolerance that makes it more attractive to some of us than tolerance? Like theft and dishonesty, it's a human failing that we just don't seem to outgrow.

Perhaps it's people who misread the bible and twist it's words to suit their own ultimately GOD-FORSAKEN agenda are misled.

There is no shame in being addicted to alcohol especially if we are working to resolve that.

Hell/Hades/Gehenna... I always interpreted it to be the opposite of life which is sleep/death/not existing.

PS I'm a pantheist but was bought up as a devout Christian.

Well you see, I understand where the fundamentalists are coming from as I had a profoundly moving spiritual experience and landed in their camp for awhile. Never quite fit in. . .but sure tried to understand things the 'right' way for awhile. Trouble is, to do so, you have to accept so much stuff 'on faith,' and turn off all your brain cells and, ultimately, your heart as well. I realized that kind of faith paints a horrific picture of a so-called loving God. So I took my own spiritual journey - I believe even this alcoholism has been/is part of the process.

For example, yesterday I wrote about how when we judge others we are also judging ourselves. That, by the way, is in the Scriptures, but I never understood the concept. Now that I have been brought to my knees under the burden of this addiction, I have a completely different perspective. If I don't believe others possess the right to judge me. . .if I expect God's love and grace in the midst of my affliction. . .then how can I believe I am in any way qualified to judge another human being on this planet? When I judge another, I'm essentially judging that my soul is more valuable than that of someone who, under overwhelming compulsion or b/c of a sick brain, molests a child. . .stalks an ex-spouse. . .murders a brother, etc. Is it? No. Just as I need love and grace to 'cover my sin' (btw: 'sin' only means 'falling short of the mark' of perfection), so does every other human. And if God is present in some way in every one of us - as I believe She is - then when we extend unconditional love even to the most unlovable, we are 'covering their sins.'

It all only makes sense once we fall down off the seat of judgement.

Sorry if this is long-winded. I love spiritual conversations.

I'd be careful with this. While our knowledge of some, many, things is far greater than it was 2, 3, 4 thousand years ago, our understanding of others is not one iota greater. Take the origin of life, for example. No current scientific knowledge has gotten us closer to understanding the origin of life than any ideas our ancestors had. Yes, there are theories but they haven't been proven, much less replicated. A number have been soundly debunked.

Our understanding of things we can observe and measure will always grow, and our understanding of the unobservable will never. The inescapable result is that our beliefs regarding the unknowable will in time seem to be dated - and in fact are if compared to our ever-growing understanding of more observable phenomena. Without being able to observe, measure and experiment, there is simply no way our understanding of things spiritual can possibly evolve. That's why it seems and feels so "old fashioned". That's just how it is.