I think that's the tragic irony of AA -- It recognizes alcohol addiction as a disease -- albeit an incurable one -- but the ONLY way to keep the disease in remission, according to them, is to work the steps. This chiefly involves recognizing our "character defects" and through the program, having them removed. The unavoidable inference of this is that our character defects are the cause of the disease!!!! And yet AA is the ONLY treatment modality that is virtually universally embraced by the medical community. How sad.

If you REALLY want to get down with the character defect concept, go to Rational Recovery's website. I've ranted about them before. The main premise is you are NOT powerless over alcohol: You simply make the rational choice to stop drinking. Go a little deeper into the non-paying resources on the site and you will learn that your drink is not only a choice; it is a self-centered, self-indulgent, selfish, childish choice. We are fortunate if we get the support of family and friends, because we do not deserve it after all the grief and misery our drinking choice has caused them. The role of family is to learn that the alcoholic is entirely in control of the choice whether to drink, and he is consciously choosing selfishly to hurt and destroy his family if he continues to drink. The family is told to give the selfish drinker an ultimatum to stop drinking if he wants to be any part of the family. When I first discovered this site I was happy to learn I DID have a choice. Of course all this talk of drinking was a trigger. I read further into the creepy part about all the selfishness over a couple of glasses of wine.

I have never felt worse or more hopeless about myself in my entire life than I did that afternoon.

How's THAT for a "character defect" concept of alcoholism??????

I am so grateful for the work of Dr.Sinclair and Dr. Eskapa.

I don't understand why the medical community and other organizations try to force addiction into the disease category. It reminds me of a time not too many decades ago when biologists tried to classify any type of life into flora or fauna (plants and animals). Finally biologists and related scientists realized they need to created new categories where the life form didn't fit into existing categories (such as fungi, archaea, bacteria).

It seems that a category should exist and stand alone from "disease" and simply be called "addiction". Whether it's caffeine, nicotine, alcohol, gambling, heroin or sex addiction, they're all addictions, not diseases. They should be treated as such. And it should not matter how a person got to be addicted, treatment(s) ought to be given based on investigations performed in a scientific manner without any moral judgments being overlaid upon them.

The current addiction classification is appears to be based on one of two extremes; the AA classification that you are a moral defective that needs to forever seek a higher power; or the disease model, where there is no personal responsibility for having the condition because it is a disease. All AA has done is redefine the word disease, so it conforms to their moral defect model. "Addiction" is neither one of these extremes. Addicts are not helpless and they are not necessarily morally bankrupt. They have an habitual reliance on something that they have acquired after some period of time which may have a detrimental effect on themselves or others. I say "may have'' because some addictions are not harmful, although a large proportion are harmful.

Where was this rant going... hmmm. Lesson for the day: "Never take lunch until you've completed a rant".

Bob

David,

You are truly a brother in arms. I, too, am 70--although physically and mentally I appear to be in my 50s. Indeed, people who don't know me think that is my age. That is despite being a HFA, like most people here judging by the intelligence of the posts.
I learned to drink as a sophomore in college (thanks, Princeton, for that great education)--actually it wasn't that bad. I've been an editor and freelance magazine writer all my adult life. It's been a great ride. With my wife as writing partner, we've traveled all over the world and seen and experienced things from the inside in a way few people do, thanks to press credentials.
I, like many others here, have--or had--an anxiety problem and I suffered badly from social phobia. Alcohol fixed all that and let me act, think and function normally like an investigative reporter should. I was skilled at prying information from people I've interviewed by persistence, empathy and knowledge of the facts. Yet I drank and I still drink. Lately, it's been escalating to the point that I start (wine) at precisely 5 o'clock, and by 8 or 9 pm after 8 or 10 units, I'm zonked and crawl into bed. I sleep well and amazingly awake refreshed and clear-headed at 7:30 am like clockwork. Rarely any hangovers. But I snore at night to my wife's consternation despite elbowing and prodding to get me to stop. Occasionally she gives up and goes to bed in another room.
What I don't like, or maybe it's more of a love-hate thing, strangely, is the buzz and loss of control drinking creaates. Initially it makes me more sociable, but then I grow very quiet and introspective. I've left many a dinner party before dinner was even served, so sleepy I just had to get home to bed. Usually I'm still clear-headed enough to let my wife drive, but on occasion I think I'm capable to take the wheel myself--which I do, and which scares the **** out of me the next day. I must say I've been very lucky so far.
I've been able to quit--one time for 8 yrs., another for 2 yrs., yet another for 7 months and sometimes a couple of days or weeks before I stupidly pick up a glass of wine thinking I can handle it. I want to moderate, but obviously I can't as the drinking quickly escalates back to unhealthy levels.
Sorry about the lengthy treatise; I could go on but will restrain myself. The bottom line is I'm full of hope that the SM will eventually allow me to drink moderately in social situations only, and remain AF when at home. I've been on Nal exactly one month. I haven't felt any changes except that alcohol seems to affect me stronger and faster. I'm convinced, by the logic of Dr. Eskapa's book, that this will eventually work so I'll stick it out no matter how long it takes. My primary care doc, though skeptical since he had never heard about pharmacological extinction, was willing to hear me out and prescribe the stuff (real cheap at Costco--only $42 a month without putting it on Medicare D, and a mere $8 a month co-pay if I do--which I do). My doc's only requirement is that I get regular liver function tests which are fully covered by Medicare B. So it's truly affordable and with no side effects for me. I feel strongly that the method will eventually fulfill the promise of moderation to fruition.

Mike

Dear All Friends Here, especially Mike,

Ah Mike, you enjoy top-shelf good company as a gifted writer with alcohol addiction issues! Just consider: Hunter Thompson, Raymond Chandler, John Cheever, O. Henry, Tennessee Williams, Dylan Thomas, Dorothy Parker, Edgar Allen Poe, Truman Kapote, Jack Keourac, William Faulkner, F. Scott Fitzgerald, James Joyce, and Ernest (Pappa) Hemingway! Wow, that's a lot of talent. And if we are introspective, the list may lead us to wonder why there is/was that strong link to alcohol and the special mental process of highly developed writing. We could surely make a whole new thread on this, but I'll leave that to others, since I'm not skilled at this 'making of threads.' Mike, your eperiences as you related here are almost a perfect mirror image of mine -- almost scary perfect -- " ...at precisely 5 o'clock ... I'm zonked and crawl into bed ..." Have you been reading my mail?

After about 4 months with Naltraxone, the TSM seems to be VERY slowly taking hold for me. I'm down from 10+ units/day to about 7-8 units. Still, I wonder if this is only due to my simple will-power to cut back, and the hope that TSM will work long term. My family and my 'counselor' are still quite skeptical of TSM.

Being so busy, and such an old, "blog illeterate" individual, I face a bit of frustration here. At the risk of sounding pompous, I'd like to start a new TSM thread more appropriately titled:" Let We Here Highly Resolve .." to quote Abraham Lincoln in order to suggest that most of us intend to see this TSM method through, in spite of the widespread skepticism. And, to suggest a forum or thread appropriate to those of us who believe that: "... we here highly resolve."

Throughout my professioal engineering and management career, I was extraordinarily lucky enough to start out among the pioneers and giants of today's computer industry going way back to MIT in 1959 and I retired with a strong international mid-management position with an industry leader.

My sense here is that there are many folks who offer very strong thoughts, input, and suggestions, and if I don't always respond, believe me, I value each and every post I read here, because I sense that we are all together a common cause.

Regards to All,

David

Hi David, just catching up and found your thread.

I am amazed at how extremely well we do as extreme drinkers.

I consider myself a "Mediterranean drinker", that is, I just always round the clock drink, and now my units are down from 20 per day to under ten. And I really do not drink too much at night anymore, which would be the time I kept going- to pass out to sleep.

This was not only the result of TSM but a very conscious effort on my part to change many of my habits and friends and improve my lifestyle, which by the way has always been very free, artistic, and elegant.

There are reasons I do not want to drink as much as I do:
1. I do not desire to further compromise my wonderful (amazing as I have drank 10 to 20 US daily for 35+ years and maybe more if I was Partying!) health.
2. I want to awaken with my creative juices flowing (which is a catch twenty two, as illustrated above with the list of writers)
3. I wish to eradicate some of my depression (which I have always had even as a child, no different form after starting to drink)
4. I desire to "save"my marriage.



And I have a large family of siblings who have used other meds to try to stabilize in this lifetime. I am happy AL was my choice rather than other meds. It's all very interesting, and I am happy to read and share with you in our struggle with our desire to change.
best to you

Well my, my, my! I'm indulging myself today by reading these threads, now that my internet connection has been 'cured' of a lightning strike last week. Had no chance to follow this one before, but of course find it extraordinarily interesting, as I am also a writer by trade. (In fact, I'm procrastinating terribly, as I'm on an impossibly tight deadline right now.) I've had a week of real success with TSM, so wanted to share the good news and touch base again with all of my friends on this amazing Message Board.

David, your life sounds fantastic! I'm curious, does your wife drink very much? I want to encourage you to hang in here ("be resolved. . ."), as I was beginning to think at about week 17 that this just wasn't working very well. That continued right on through until this past week (week 22), when it felt like something was being suddenly turned off in my brain. It's not only that I'm drinking less - it's the remarkably reduced thinking about and craving for alcohol that is truly amazing. Also my drink of choice (Chardonnay) just doesn't taste as good as it used to. (One effect I hope isn't lasting, as I do like good wines.) The changes are noticeable and distinct on a day-to-day basis, which is encouraging after such a long 'not dry' spell.

The reference to all of those alcoholic writers is interesting, as I've noted from the inception of this Board that it is populated by people with higher-than-average communication, music, and artistic skills. Taken as a whole, we are quite an incredible group of people (she says, with great humility). I'm not particularly religious these days, but do consider myself spiritual - and I have a strong sense that the people on this Board were not thrown together by mere happenstance. When I think of all the alkies I know, I can assure you that a random sampling of them would not produce as many articulate, talented, and high functioning individuals as are represented here!

Nope. . .I suspect we've been put together for a higher purpose than merely gaining a handle on our personal addictions. This is the kind of group that, properly motivated as we are, possesses the combined skills to take the Sinclair message to the world. Should that be the case, I will consider my own struggles with alcohol over the years to have been a very small price to pay.

I also appreciate your pointing out that alcoholism does not indicate a defective character, and surprised you haven't come across this skewed reasoning, or suffered from some form of it yourself. Nearly every alkie I know has spent countless hours beating themselves up for being too weak to overcome their addiction - myself included. AA drums that message even further into our brains, and the foolish behavior we sometimes exhibit when drunk only confirms our belief. But that behavior is driven by the alcohol, and doesn't reflect our core values or strengths. And we certainly do have strengths! Many alcoholics function under conditions that would entirely defeat lesser people. Just look at the career you've carved out, in spite of your addiction. That alone indicates a strong character.

I have one friend, K, who breaks my heart. She is smart, hard-working, kind, and exceptionally generous toward others. She cares for her (not-nice) BF's grandchildren regularly, and free of charge. One of her friends broke up with her BF and had no place to stay, and K has taken her in. (K doesn't know said 'friend' has got it on with her boyfriend from time to time. . .) The gal she's taken in is also an alcoholic - but she would be lacking character whether she drank or not.

Anyway, K gets totally obliterated 3-4 nights a week. Every conversation she has, whether drunk or sober, is filled with self-recrimination and guilt over her drinking. She blames herself completely. How I look forward to the day when TSM is mainstream enough, and enough of us are living proof of its effectiveness, that she and others like her will realize they are not to blame for their condition, and there's now something they can do to effectively address it and reclaim their lives.

But enough. . .I'm rambling, and didn't intend to hijack your thread. Welcome!

G4M - I just LOVE you!!!

Welcome to David & Mike. I loved reading all this. I feel like 2 Ernest Hemingways just joined us! LOL Yes, we are a highly functional, intelligent & literate population here. Its pretty amazing. I, for one, appreciate the fact everyone proof reads their stuff before sending! :-) I also think EVERYONE out there has "something" they use to deal with the dailiness of living. Whether it be alcohol, food, sex, gambling, religion, smoking, drugs...everybody is addicted to something(s). We are not alone and we are not a bunch of weak-willed losers.

Happily, many of us are co-addicted to this board and it has been a HUGE source of comfort and strength. I also believe there is a sort-of karma/reason for us all to be here. It has been the best therapy I have experienced and I just have found so much to be grateful for when I have been at my lowest and logged on here.

Looking forward to sharing the journery w/ you guys!

Dear All, especially HouTX and G4M,

Thanks for wonderful thoughts from you both! So maybe let us all stick together and perhaps let: "We here highly resolve..." to carefully run the Sinclair Method to ground as an experiment conducted for the betterment of all people, everywhere. If it works for us, as a group, we will serve a great purpose; if it doesn't work for us as a group, we will also serve a great purpose. Personally my heavy money is on the former because it makes so much perfect scientific sense to me.

Regarding some of our earlier messages about the attendent moral issues, someone suggested that MORAL doesn't seem to be a problem today, but I believe it is STILL a VERY major problem. Consider for example that even in our "enlightened" society, we here are all said to: "abuse alcohol." Abuse? OH really!? WOW, Imagine we each here ABUSE something! Doesn't that sound very scary and abnormal to you? Are we all to be ranked right up there and given such horrible sobriquets as: "alcohol abusers," "child abusers," or "spouse abusers?" My good gods, I should hope not, but that is the current terminology applied to us!!! Are there any "Caffine abusers" among us? Now don't you dare try to hide! Are we also hiding many tobacco abusers among us?!

Even my health insurance, BlueCross/BlueShield, which was recently given my claim for my seeing a counsellor for several short out-patient office visits in order to ask for my Naltrexone prescription, places me under "MENTAL HEALTH" benefits! Imagine, MENTAL HEALTH BENEFITS! My DEAR lady counsellor is wonderful and we usually swap stories for one hour about local happenings, gardening, dog ownership, local jazz venues, etc., along with my perception renewal and discussion of the Naltrexone effect. She remains a dear friend, but still skeptical after 17 weekly visits and my health insurance is about to "kick-out," as I expect it has already done so. Oddly enough, were I so more "morally disabled" as to require in-patient treatment at a detox facility, my insurance would cover 100% of the cost for 30 days of treatment which would likely run to $30 thousand. Go figure ...

So, let us here highly resolve and take extra comfort in our amazing collection of minds here on this forum. Even my skeptical wife is impressed by our exchanges!

Regards to all,

David

David,

Thanks for using "sobriquet"! I always like to learn a new word. I guess I would have elected to use "epithet" which is similar.

I agree with your observation that alcoholics have been characterized as abusers, in similar manner as child abusers, drug abusers, and other rabble of society. It is an interesting observation that I would not have been likely to notice if you had not taken the time to document it here in your post. Thanks.

Regarding people being skeptical; when you get to the point I am in the treatment, no one around you will be skeptical any longer. Everyone who knows you will notice the change even before you declare victory here. I have not yet declared my victory, because I want to ensure to myself that it truly has worked for a significant period of time, even though I have almost 3 weeks of diminished or nonexistent cravings as you anyone can plainly see from my signature line. I even entertained thoughts today of going to my former local AA meeting tomorrow night with my Naltrexone in hand and march in, slam the Naltrexone bottle down on the table and proclaim "I am cured and I am happy; who else wants to be cured and happy, too"? Obviously, I won't do that, but I entertained the thought because it is quite clear that this medication when used properly does exactly what Dr. Sinclair said it would do.

Bob

Dear bob3d

Oh my gosh Bob, that is a wonderful success for you and thanks for sharing it with all of us here. Your posted photo here and thoughts here suggest that you are quite young, extraordinarily handsome, and very thoughtful about this important topic in your life. If I may personally share something with you, I have a brand new son-in-law that you make me think of as you post here. He has seemingly unlimited potential, but he needs our daughter's gentle hand to help him restrain his own prediliction to alcohol which (only I can see) and has a negative genetic history in his own family. We are so very proud of this young man who is currently in graduate school in a grueling Physician Assistant program and he is loving every single minute of it! He is Dean's List, Class President, etc.. He is about to begin his several internships with Emergency Room practice. The "in -crowd" asks is he nuts? His reply is that he wants to have experience with every problem which might require his help, even though he will likely work in a big teaching hospital setting before choosing his medical specialty.

Bob, I think it is worthwhile for us all to ponder the common notion that we here are all some sort of "abusers." As I have aged, and even as my wonderful wife laughs, I can no longer even swat insects because of my new view of the world. Instead, I now try to harmlessly capture them inside our house and release them to the great outdoors because my personal spiritualism demands that of me and I derive much satisfaction from the practice of helping all lower beings to survive. Sorry if that sounds "over the top," but it is only one view.

Oh now, perhaps I should append here: I'm not one bit concerned about my perceived "masculinity," I've got a very long resume to cover that point even as I humby respect all wonderous forms of life that we see each day.

Whoa! This is becoming way to "spiritual" for me, let's just lighten up and enjoy.

Regards,

David