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 Post subject: about 2 months in. losing hope.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 9:00 am 
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I am 28 years and I would consider myself a hardcore alcoholic. I have been in 3 detoxes and 2, 28 day in-patient rehabs. For the decade, a little under 2 years is the longest I have been able to abstain from alcohol, and for the most part I am every day drinker. I have been in and out of AA more times than I can keep track of at this point. Typically my pattern is after a relapse my drinking progresses until I'm at the point where I am either in a state of extreme anxiety, or I'm drinking to the point of blackout. This usually leads to me feeling compelled to drink around the clock (stopping only when I blackout/pass out) until I am violently ill, I end up in rehab and/or I detox at home, and then go back to AA, eventually to relapse and the cycle starts again. At my worst I'm estimating 100 units of hard liquor a week. Consequences of my drinking have been inability to hold down any job for more than a year, loss of the relationship with my daughter and her mother, DUI, total lack of friends, a recently failing marriage, engaging in dangerous and violent behavior, and extremely low self-esteem.

I head heard through the grape-vine things about vivitrol and naltrexone and the Sinclair Method but it really seemed to good to be true, I still believed in AA. After leaving my wife of only 6 months, who is also alcoholic to move back in with my parents because of our heavy drinking together. I returned to my parents home where I saw a psychiatrist about going on naltrexone for my alcoholism. He wanted me to detox first, get a liver test, and ultimately take the medication in abstinence. While detoxing at home on librium a read the Cure for Alcoholism book and it sold me and decided I would try to use my naltrexone in the manner advocated by the Sinclair Method. At this point I was desperate to try anything, and the book was very convincing.

My approach for the past 2 months has been to never drink if I haven't taken 50mg of naltrexone at least 1 hour ago. If it has been close to or more than 24 hours since my last dose of naltrexone and I wish to drink more then I take another dose and wait another hour. It is has very common for me to take naltrexone, have some drinks, fall asleep, wake up several hours later, and then drink some more still within this 24 hour time frame. This has been my experience:

Initially I got very nauseous when I tried to drink like I used to. I would have nights where I would actually pour out what I was drinking without finishing it and just go to bed, something I would never do before. I managed to get a menial job. My liver values have improved slightly after about a month of being on TSM. I would still drink too much sometimes, I would still sometimes get hung over, and I would still sometimes say things I regretted saying, and I would still often feel compelled to drink in the morning. However, based on what I read in the book I felt optimistic that as long as I had naltrexone in my system when I drank, I was making progress and it felt that way.

However, the second month, during which I expected further improvement, feels like it has been mostly regression. I'm having frequent black outs where I wake up the next morning to discover no matter how much alcohol I bought after work it's all been consumed. I'm still using heavy drinking to cope with anxiety and I'm back to the old feeling of basically feeling distressed and miserable any time I'm not drinking, and when I do drink I want to drink as much as I possibly can. I still feel miserable about my life and the only time I can tolerate it is when I'm drinking, which I do every single day. I cannot tell if this is generated by outside circumstances about consequences of my past drinking, or if it's just the TSM failing me. The only pro at this point as I have not done anything overtly catastrophic while drinking yet. One thing I suspect is receptor up regulation, and it makes me skeptical of TSM and makes me wonder if all the pills did is cause my brain to generate more opiate receptors. Basically the bottom line is when I take the pill before I drink I really don't feel any different, I drink exactly like I do in the past before going on TSM, which was not the case when I started, I feel like I'm back in the dark times. I resolve not to drink that day almost every morning but still do so as soon as I get home. I'm still going to give it more time but I thought at the 2 month point I would be at least seeing the light at the end of the tunnel in terms of getting "cured". The whole notion of needing a higher dose, or "boosters" or whatever just makes me feel like the TSM is still a very experimental process which makes me wonder why the literature on it makes it seem like it's basically guaranteed to work as long as you comply to the Golden Rule.

Basically I'm the point where I really question TSM as being as effective as the people advocating it claim it is. I wanted so badly to believe that just taking a pill and drinking would fix everything, as I love drinking and nothing else I've tried has worked. I feel like all it did was maybe slow things down for me for a little while. It also seems like the vast majority of the people who post on here are high bottom drunks who I can't really relate to, I don't really see the same kind of success stories and happiness I saw in the AA meetings. I have also heard that the studies that generated the 80% success rate did not include people with other psychiatric issues like depression, which makes me question the whole validity and true accuracy of it.

I don't know, I'm so miserable and frustrated with my alcoholism at this point. I want so badly to believe that if I stick with this something will change. But it's been 2 months, it's not changing, and I don't know what to do. I suspect 12 step spiritual type programs and abstinence really are the only way to treat the underlying causes and consequences of my drinking. However, after 2 months of TSM I'm still very, very addicted to alcohol which makes everything difficult.


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 Post subject: Re: about 2 months in. losing hope.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:39 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2014 3:31 am
Posts: 128
Hi OttoMann

Options

1) Go back to AA, however if it's not worked before what's the probability it will work in the future? you say "a little under two years is the longest I have been able to abstain from alcohol" that's a bigger acheivement than many folk here. However the claim of Sinclair is that in abstainance the craving never goes away and the craving just keeps getting worse. Something he claims that TSM solves.

2) Keep going with TSM, two months is a very short time to see results in anyone let alone someone who's on the high end of the alcoholism scale. In away you're over the worse regarding Nalrexone SEs so you don't have much to loss. You need to set a realistic target perhaps one whole year!!!
If you haven't already, please go to the weekly progress thread and read "plantprO"s journey from the beginning. He is still active here so you could ask him any questions you have.

3) You could research Baclofen which works on different areas of the brain, it's not an easy option but then we both know an easy option just doesn't exist. If I've understood correctly some folk use both the naltrexone and baclofen in search of a cure. This needs serious research and discussion with your medical adviser.

OttoMan I wish you my hopes and prays on your journey my friend, please stay close there are many good folk on this forum and I know they will give you support.


Last edited by thistime2014 on Sun Nov 09, 2014 12:14 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: about 2 months in. losing hope.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:46 am 
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Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2014 3:48 am
Posts: 163
hello,

Also I think I am right in saying that if you are drinking for more than 4 to 5 hours its sensible to take a top up does of 25mg. You could be doing the beginning bit right but still be getting a 'hit' after you have had a sleep and wake up to drink more.

Lots of us doing this at the moment, and I am confident in saying most of us are having a 'does it really work' worry. I would say for long term drinking 2 months would be amazing, and I have seen many threads were little happens for a long time.

good luck

_________________
For my weekly drinking units please see my weekly thread at
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3885


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 Post subject: Re: about 2 months in. losing hope.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 12:42 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 09, 2014 10:08 am
Posts: 438
I'm not aware of pills being able to cure anything except infections, and possibly some cancers. Medications are great adjuncts in controlling conditions, and helping to control problems.

People drink too much for reasons. Understanding this,and getting to the root of the problem, may be the way to solve it. Naltrexone is a great help in making alcohol less desirable, and putting the brakes on out-of-control drinking, while dealing with the issues that are causing the over drinking in the first place.

As I see it, the medication allows you to get away from daily drinking, and get your thoughts in order, to see what the problem really was, and actually fix it. None of that necessarily means twelve-step programs, abstinence, or seeing yourself as hopelessly diseased.

How about a counselor, and being accountable to that person and getting some guidance on that level?

The other approach, is just to take the medication, and keep drinking, like normal, and expecting that eventually you'll be "cured". Many here like that approach as well.

Naltrexone was a great tool for me, and I'm far happier than when I overdrank incessantly. Others have said the same thing.

It's well worth going back in this forum and seeing what people posted in years past, especially people that posted a lot, and see what their final threads reveal about how things worked out for them.

None of this is simple black-and-white, the ultimate decision is yours.


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 Post subject: Re: about 2 months in. losing hope.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 12:49 pm 
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Hi OttoMann, I get where you are coming from about this is too good to be true and does this TSM thing really work as all of us Newbies do think kinda the same way but most of us are very determined to prove it does work by staying the course. I am desperate for this to work for me so I know I have to stay with this at least 3-4 months and maybe up to a year for this to work for me then always take a Nal 1 hour before any drinking in the future. AA is not an option for me as I just hate all the shaming, praying, God stuff sorry but that's just me. When I did go to AA I could hardly wait to get out of there to have a drink as it was so depressing and just made me anxious. If it works for you then you have to decide with that is the way to go. By the way alcohol is a depressant as I'm sure you know and only makes your depression worse. I think there are a lot of alcoholics with depression but have heard once off the booze their depression is much better. My Doctor also prescribed me Nal to take while abstinent but she is so old school I didn't tell her about TSM so I am doing this on my own for me and to save my life.

You say "I resolve not to drink that day almost every morning but still do so as soon as I get home". Ahh that is what is called a daily drinking alcoholic just like me, that is our problem! I had to work very hard at it yesterday to have an AF day cause I have had so many hangovers in the last weeks along with my concentration and my brain being so dead I can't do much each day.
You have to do what is right for you but even the book does not say 2 months is enough. The book says about 3-4 months and I know it's not what we all want to hear but from reading the past posts on this site people took a lot longer than that but TSM came through in the end.


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 Post subject: Re: about 2 months in. losing hope.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:18 am 
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