Hello Everyone,
I started the SM six weeks ago. The book said to keep drinking like I usually do, so I have been(average 45 to 50 units a week). There wasn't much of a honeymoon effect, maybe eight less than usual for the first week. but since then it is pretty much business as usual. I hope I am not one of the twenty percent that this method does not work for. Can anyone give me some idea when I should notice some change. I am hoping like hell that the SM will work for me but I am getting a little discouraged.

Thanks for listening,

Pete

It's way too early for it be working.. the range is all over the place, from 12 weeks to 27 weeks and then longer.. I'm at 37 weeks and improved but not cured. The best advise I got early on was to just take the pill, drink, and not over-think it. Maybe just let it go until month 4 or 5 and then evaluate. Keeping a chart is also helpful - there's been times when it felt like nothing was changing but the charts told me differently. It was just that even as my units decreased, my sensitivity to alcohol increased and I felt like crap.

Take care,

Virginia

Hang in there bubbles - you've got a ways to go yet, almost certainly, with 3-4 months as a MINIMUM based on the book. Others report much longer, yet ultimately successful. I like the analogy of it being a long trip. If it takes 54 hours to drive non-stop from New York to California, there's no point in asking yourself in Ohio "are we there yet?"

I did not notice a discernible change in drinking until week 11 or 12 - and even that was just the ability to put a cork back into a bottle that still had some wine left in it. I began to be able to stop after 2 or three drinks, instead of finishing the bottle.

It wasn't until week 21 or so that I managed an AF day, and even then it wasn't planned. I had a meeting that ran long and while I normally drank to "catch up" after getting home I decided to just bag it - it just occurred to me on the ride home that it might be possible, so I tried it, and it was easy. Surprised myself.

Hang in there. It's a long, repetitive process. It's like that old joke about the tourist who asked how to get to Carnegie Hall. Answer: Practice, practice, practice. TSM is a lot like that. It's not one thing, it's the process of a repetitive behavior eventually leading to different results, leading to gradual extinction of the behavior due to lack of reward.

My advice is forget about anything other than making a note of units each day for another month or two. After two or three months on TSM maybe begin to ask yourself at intervals, "if I declare this as my last drink of the evening, would I make it to bedtime without another one?" If you decide after waiting a few minutes or an hour to have another, whatever - don't sweat it! But at least by asking the question you open up to the possibility that maybe control has snuck up on you and indeed, you can begin to consciously influence yourself as to when to stop drinking.

Thanks Virginia and Plain Vanilla,

I registered and posted without having read any of the other posts on this forum. After reading some I realize I have a ways to go yet. I read Dr. Eskapas book and while it is full of statistical information , I found it didn't delve to deeply into what to expect on a day to day basis. I only drink in the evenings, usually seven or eight beers, and occasionally up to ten. My last alcohol free day was in 1983, I still remember it, how weird is that? I wonder if drinking for such a long period of time will affect the period of time for the SM to work?

Plain Vanilla your first alcohol free night was not that difficult. I am thinking of trying to have an occasional alcohol free evening (the thought scares the hell out of me) . Occasionally when I have tried drinking 3 or less I find I have these terrible vivid dreams that startle me awake, usually three or four times before I can fall asleep. I wonder how bad they will be if I don't drink at all? Also for the SM to work, you have to continue drinking. Will going alcohol free slow down the process?

Thanks....Pete

Hi Pete

I think PV gives very good advice. I'm 9 months into TSM and not cured yet, but I'm in a whole different place to where I was. I haven't been drinking quite as long as you, but I have been drinking heavily (more so than yourself) for a long time still - maybe 15 years or so. 9 months ago I was managing about 1 AF per month, and that wasn't easy. Now I do 4 per week without much effort. I've gone from 100+ (UK) units per week to about 40. I look and feel much better and have way more energy and drive. I'm not cured, but I'm going in the right direction.

Just stick to what you're doing for a while yet. Maybe in another few weeks you can experiment with some strategies - maybe drink something non-alcoholic in between drinks (my dentist wouldn't love the amount of Coke I drink now, but hey ho ) Keep a record of how much you drink, but also try and record how you felt - before, during and after. That can really be telling in terms of progress. Try and occasionally break up your normal drinking routine - see if you can distract yourself at all, and if so, how long before you feel the need to have that drink. Don't beat yourself up over having it - it isn't failure, it is measuring progress on a long journey.

Good luck

6 weeks into TSM is just starting and you have awhile to go, so remember you're not in a race and no two people are alike in this journey. Hang in there and let NAL do what it's suppose to do whether you see it or not it's still working. If you're concerned about the levels of AL cut some out during the day even if it's just one drink less it will help.

take care, stay close
corkit

Pete, just my opinion of course, but I tend toward thinking that AF should not be forced early.

I do think that in the early months a Nal+drink session is better than an AF day (if you are a daily drinker by nature). If it can be Nal plus one fewer drink than yesterday, as corkit suggests ... super! Progress!

But you cannot rewire the brain without these Nal+drink sessions and I don't think there's any way to know exactly what the current state of wiring is. TSM requires drinking. Drinking is the job! As time goes by, it really began to feel more like a job. Sure, I got drunk, but not enjoyably so. It got to be tiresome. Once you reach that point, you might try "slacking off" by quitting early. Then one day you might try playing hooky.

But since extinction is so unlikely to happen in less than three or four months, I did not even think about AF until that time, and even then just to wonder when it might seem possible. It really seemed impossible to me, right up to week 21. I just plotted my numbers and had faith that it would become an option some day.

I think that forcing an early AF day (or resisting a strong craving) is a VERY different thing than "testing" the hypothesis - which is where I feel conscious effort is required, but not willpower. It's a weird distinction that might only make sense when you're at that place.

I can only speak for my own experience. I'm sure it's tiresome for those who have different experience. I only post out of gratitude.

Thanks PV and Corkit,
I really appreciate the input. I will stick with the program long term and trust in the results that others have achieved. The good news is that I have something to look forward to which hasn't been the case for a very long time. I will keep you posted.
Cheers.....Pete

Well I am starting my ninth week and for the last two weeks I have actually been drinking more than I did before I started. I am also considering trying Baclofen. Will this affect the results of the Nal?

You are experiencing the "extinction burst" -- search the term here. In brief, an increase of drinking on TSM which is entirely part of the process. TSM is a rollercoaster ride by definition and almost all of the cured experienced a spike in drinking before the big drop.

RE: Bac -- treading into medical advice here that no one is qualified to answer. I can say that at 9 weeks you are still very early in the process - I was still drinking heavily after roughly 30 weeks. Do you at least have increased clarity and control when you drink on nal? Do you act less foolishly with fewer blackouts? I ask because these are often indicators that TSM will work for you. The roughly 20% it doesn't work for usually report no honeymoon and no noticeable subjective experience when drinking on nal.

And to answer your question on the post, TSM takes longer than the 3-4 months advertised in the book. 3-4 months appears to be the mark for younger drinkers who "only" have 35 a week; for those drinking longer and more, it's more like 6 to 12 months plus before you have total control. Some report a gradual journey to control while others have a "light switch" moment when they suddenly do not want or like alcohol.