Oh - just realised that you are planning on getting it there - not starting it before - then that sort of poses a problem maybe .....I thought you were going to start it now before you go ....anyway - check out that other thread - Steven has some wise words - he has just posted so right now it is the last post!

Thanks for your help Maggie,I'll check that out now

Wow,I could have wrote zekes posts word for word.

Yep ......

Hugs, Maggie

Like Maggie said taking the Naltrexone in this case may or may not work. I've always wondered what the results would be in this case however I do not encourage you to try and find out

I've just read two threads that interest me actually one is this one which is the case of some one who has been successful with the traditional abstinence program and two one who has been 'cured' using TSM and goes back to drinking. In your case you deserve a huge pat on the back, Kudos and congratulation because you did it the hard way and beat the odds.

I've read the book and even followed the notes and read the research papers and the science behind TSM and my understanding of it is as follows. First of all rats and humans while both mammals are very very different creatures. In short we are free to live as we do, we live in societies that create social constructs, mores, culture and so on and cannot be trapped in cages for experimentation. But what Sinclair and other scientists have found is that if you practice TSM then you are tackling one of the most important parts bout this addiction, the physiological root cause of the addiction which consists of the opioidergic systems response in the brain to alcohol. As such in time you literally physically alter your brain.

So take two rats, one you give Naltrexon too and a TSM program and another you separate into another cage and force abstinence on. After a period of time, one month in the case of rats IIRC, the rats who practiced TSM reduce their alcohol intake to zero all on there own. The process is called extinction and what happens is when you drink a shot of alcohol as soon as it hits the central nervous system it releases all these wonderful hormones called endorphin, the bodies natural opiate. This endorphin then travels to the brain and finds the receptors that welcome it with open arms and you get a nice high. In doing this over your alcoholic career you are physically building a neural network system of 'wires' to these receptors. Just like building a road to a small town as the town grows the road becomes a double lane road then a super highway. When you drink on Naltrexone you physically destroy this highway through this process of extinction, blocking the rewarding high when ever you drink.

So you have these two rats, one has gone through TSM the other has not. The one who has not still has these super highways in the brain so when he drinks again it's super buzz just like it was before going abstinent and then the desire to chase that drink to the next one is just as strong as ever. The other rat has destroyed these super highways which is sort of like your brain going back in time to when you were that 15 year old kid drinking for the first time. You didn't need to drink 13 drinks in one night when you were 15 right? That's why, but now you do and you never went through the process to reverse that.

Having said that even the alcoholic rat that practiced TSM will eventually go back to full blown alcoholic because there are other processes that are not quite understood or studied enough or even known at all that's why anyone who does TSM will always have to take Naltrexone. But there is a difference, a big difference according to the study. In fact the study shows that abstinence can actually make the condition worse. Look up 'alcohol deprivation syndrome.' This suggests that abstinence actually makes the user desire the alcohol even more.

Anyway from my own experience I've only ever gone abstinent for about 2 months over the last 25 years and I definitely know what the deprivation syndrome is because every time I came back it was full on full force. I've seen it in my family too. I read an interview with Alice Cooper once where he said that one day after not drinking for like ten years he walked by a table with a glass of wine on it his wife left there and thought he could just take a sip. Later that night he had bottles hidden all over the house and the next thing you know he was drunk for another year before he got sober again.

So... long story short, you are walking on eggshells here. The book recommends that if abstinence is working for you then by all means you should keep up with it. Again, you should be commended for a job well done. TSM is only for alcoholics 'in the field' so to speak. I hope that you don't use the success of TSM as an excuse to relapse and then go on TSM. It might work well for you but it may very well suck really bad too so that's why it's better to carry on as you are unless all else fails.

Like Maggie said taking the Naltrexone in this case may or may not work. I've always wondered what the results would be in this case however I do not encourage you to try and find out

I've just read two threads that interest me actually one is this one which is the case of some one who has been successful with the traditional abstinence program and two one who has been 'cured' using TSM and goes back to drinking. In your case you deserve a huge pat on the back, Kudos and congratulation because you did it the hard way and beat the odds.

I've read the book and even followed the notes and read the research papers and the science behind TSM and my understanding of it is as follows. First of all rats and humans while both mammals are very very different creatures. In short we are free to live as we do, we live in societies that create social constructs, mores, culture, we develop habits, routine and so on and cannot be trapped in cages for experimentation. But what Sinclair and other scientists have found is that if you practice TSM then you are tackling one of the most important parts bout this addiction, the physiological root cause of the addiction which consists of the opioidergic systems response in the brain to alcohol. As such in time you literally physically alter your brain.

So take two rats, one you give Naltrexon to and a TSM program and another you separate into another cage and force abstinence on. After a period of time, one month in the case of rats IIRC, the rats who practiced TSM reduce their alcohol intake to zero all on there own. The process is called extinction and what happens is when you drink a shot of alcohol as soon as it hits the central nervous system it releases all these wonderful hormones called endorphin, the bodies natural opiate. This endorphin then travels to the brain and finds the receptors that welcome it with open arms and you get a nice high. In doing this over your alcoholic career you are physically building a neural network system of 'wires' to these receptors. Just like building a road to a small town as the town grows the road becomes a double lane road then the town becomes a city and the road super highway. When you drink on Naltrexone you physically destroy this highway through this process of extinction, blocking the rewarding high when ever you drink.

So you have these two rats, one has gone through TSM the other has not. The one who has not still has these super highways in the brain so when he drinks again it's super buzz just like it was before going abstinent and then the desire to chase that drink to the next one is just as strong as ever. The other rat has destroyed these super highways which is sort of like your brain going back in time to when you were that 15 year old kid drinking for the first time. You didn't need to drink 13 drinks in one night when you were 15 right? That's why, but now you do and you never went through the process to reverse that.

Having said that even the alcoholic rat that practiced TSM will eventually go back to full blown alcoholic because there are other processes that are not quite understood or studied enough or even known at all that's why anyone who does TSM will always have to take Naltrexone. But there is a difference, a big difference according to the study. In fact the study shows that abstinence can actually make the condition worse. Look up 'alcohol deprivation syndrome.' This suggests that abstinence actually makes the user desire the alcohol even more.

Anyway from my own experience I've only ever gone abstinent for about 2 months over the last 25 years on several different occasions and I definitely know what the deprivation syndrome is because every time I came back it was full on full force. I've seen it in my family too. I read an interview with Alice Cooper once where he said that one day after not drinking for like ten years he walked by a table with a glass of wine on it his wife left there and thought he could just take a sip. Later that night he had bottles hidden all over the house and the next thing you know he was drunk for another year before he got sober again.

So... long story short, you are walking on eggshells here. The book recommends that if abstinence is working for you then by all means you should keep up with it. Again, you should be commended for a job well done. TSM is only for alcoholics 'in the field' so to speak. I hope that you don't use the success of TSM as an excuse to relapse and then go on TSM. It might work well for you but it may very well suck really bad too so that's why it's better to carry on as you are unless all else fails.

Good luck!

Very good post Ocean. Hope you never need TSM!! Newlife

Well said, Ocean.

Santiago,

I can tell you that you are on a slippery slope. And I feel for you. About 2 years ago I had stopped drinking, and well I thought I could have one drink on vacation. And now I am here. I think a lot of us have been down that path. I wish you the best.

Jaba

Great post, Ocean.

I hope you make the right choice for you, Santiago.