Before starting Nal 7 months ago I would start drinking wine around 3 in the afternoon and polish 2/12 or 3 bottles then go to bed (euphemism) around 7. Now I only drink beer with the occasional glass of wine if I am having a good dinner. I am at about 5 beers per day starting around 7:30. I am not even sure I want them but I have been drinking excessively since high school and I am now 72. I still get a pleasant buzz but I can imagine AF free days, but am sort of frightened by the thought and have been so habituated to drinking at the end of the day--the end being much later now--that I may just need to break a habit to go along with the reduced cravings. I have only had a few AF days and they were when I was not feeling well because of a cold or the flu.The fact that I never crave alcohol early in the day indicates that my drinking is at least partially a result of habit. I may need some behavior modification therapy but i don't know where to get it.My doctor was wonderful about researching TSM and prescribing Nal but I don't know if I can find help with the behavior. I certainly don't want someone who buys into the Abstinence, 12 step ideology/religion.

Thanks for any advice you might offer.

Fiddleplayer -

I don't know if you saw any of the responses to your other thread, I'll post the link to it here:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4641&p=60382&sid=f1aa1fb120e54dca386977a939555fbd#p60382

When you start a new thread, or reply to a thread, there's a checkbox down below where you compose your message. The checkbox is named "Notify me when a reply is posted". If you put a tick in that checkbox, you'll get an email when someone has replied to the thread. Might make it easier to keep track of things. The email notification will have a few links in it, one of those links says:

"If you want to view the topic, click the following link:"

Clicking the link below that phrase will take you back to your topic here on TheSinclairMethod and you can read the replies to your post.

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That being said, there's probably some way we can help you get to a therapist that's a little more open-minded, or if you don't mind being in a group then there might be some local meetings that you can plug into that aren't abstinence based. Some therapists offer Skype sessions, so you can work with them in the privacy of your own home. If you can let us know the biggest city that's handy to you, someone might have a therapist or group in mind. If you don't want to put that kind of information into a public forum, then feel free to send me a Private Message via the link at the upper right, just to the right of where it says "Logout [fiddleplayer]". I'll send you a Private Message so it's easier for you to reply to me.

So, there you go. Let us know how we can help and someone will jump in!

consider trying ONE day, then step it up from there. I'm currently in the middle of a 5-day AF "binge" which I never would have considered even a few months ago. I had reduced my numbers a lot, but still had very few AF days. month ago I decided to try a week AF to see what would happened. it was surprisingly easy, yet I didn't guilt myself going back to drinking at week's end. maybe trying 1, then 2, etc will help you some. just food for thought....

Fiddleplayer,

In the beginning AF days were hard for me, so I found I had to plan mind games with myself. I would delay in taking the pill...the habit of taking the pill at 5 pm so I could drink at 6 pm was so ingrained that my brain expected, so at first I would wait until 5:15, and then 5:30, etc until I got to 7-8pm; I also would wait longer than 1 hour, at first it was an hour and 15 minutes and I waited longer each time when I got comfortable with that length of time. At the end I was taking my pill around 7-8 pm and it would be around 10 pm when I realized that I didn't have a drink, for I just forgot about it. That was when I realized I could do an AF day without an issue, but I still could only do one AF day at a time. I found keeping myself busy at that witching hour is very helpful, for habit is the hardest thing to change.

I think you have made amazing progress, so do not be discouraged by this stall. You have come along way, and as much as we would love for things to work as fast as the book claim, it just doesn't for some of us.

Keep doing what you have been doing, and reach out to JoAnna, for she is an amazing and helpful women!

Jaba

I started TSM going on about 8 months ago now and I responded almost instantly but still I drank most days. I was always a sort of binge drinker so having dry days was not unusual for me but what was normal for me was dreading the days that I planned to get dry. I'd binge for a week or a month then finally set a target date to dry up. I'd fear that day and in most cases would suffer when it came.

After 8 months of doing TSM I still pretty much drank on most days until recently. Out of habit I still dread my target alcohol free days but what I am finding out now, simply because I finally took the step to do it, is that the alcohol free days are not a problem at all. I suffer no withdrawal at all because a) I don't drink 15 beers a night anymore and b) when I drink in accordance to TSM I don't trigger the opioidergic system which is what wreaks havoc and causes the suffering in the first place.

So I guess my point is that you don't really know till you try. Just go for it. Try an alcohol free day and see. IF it bothers you too much then you are simply not ready for it. Take your Naltrexone, wait one hour, and begin another extinction session with the drink of your choice.

I sort of second what Ocean says. I used to dread AF days and still they make me sort of nervous out of habit. But they are SO DIFFERENT NOW, they are doable. If you are TRULY white knuckling, I wouldn't do it, I would try but if it turns out to be that hard, go ahead and take the pill, wait an hour and drink. Then try again a week or so later. You will see that eventually you can do it and the more you do it the easier it gets. The best part is that you FEEL SO GOOD. So it sort of builds on itself. I was AF yesterday and I feel great today. Think I am going to do it again today. NEVER thought I could say that without my palms sweating. You will get there.

Newlife

The last month I've only been drinking on the weekends. I used to do that when I was still strong enough to deal with drying out on a Sunday. But the difference is that then I would think and worry and brood over it all week and when Friday came it was a like a huge celebration (deprivation affect no doubt). But now I honestly don't even really think about it. In fact it's real funny, last Friday I went to the grocery store and there is a beer store right next to it with a huge selection of good beers and has been my regular Friday night after work stop for many many years. I went and got my groceries and totally forgot to get beer. LOL. You have to understand how funny that is! That's something that I NEVER would have forgot, in fact it would have been the only reason why I went to the store in the first place.

I did go back and get beer though because you know that's what I'm supposed to do on Friday night right? Nasty habit it is...

I've mentioned this before but it might be a good time to recommend it again for anyone considering cognitive behaviorial therapy in conjunction with the sinclair method, something I'm trying right now. This book has been helping me a lot:

The Addiction Recovery Skills Workbook: Changing Addictive Behaviors Using CBT, Mindfulness, and Motivational...Dec 1, 2015
by Suzette Glasner-Edwards PhD and Richard A Rawson PhD

***

I would also like to take this opportunity to offer a brief comment on AF days. I am new to this -- just starting week 4. But I've taken the time to very carefully read everything I could get my hands on this subject and one of the things I researched was AF days.

According to Dr. Eskapa's book, and as all the vets to this board already know, I'm sure, the purpose of the AF days is not to 'see if you can do it'. It's a time where you go alcohol free, yes. But it's also supposed to be a carefully PLANNED time where you replace the alcohol reward with other pleasurable activities. That way your brain slowly learns that there are other rewards out there besides alcohol.

So having a single AF day is pointless at least from a behavior modification view, apparently. Because the lingering effects of naltrexone are still in your body.

Eskapa's specific formula for AF days is as follows:

#1. Friday night (for example) take last nal and drink with it.

#2. Saturday no drinking, no nal, let the drug clear out of your body. Use this time to plan dopamine releasing activities as rewards for tomorrow.

#3. Sunday no drinking, no nal and engage in all the pleasurable activities you planned. Which apparently should be more fun because you're not taking nal and damping down the effect. Should be sensual activities like a funny movie, a massage, a hot bath, sex, exercise, a banana split, playing with your dog,--whatever gives you a feeling of joy on some level. Shouldn't be an activity that requires attention and focus as in somehow work or project related.

You could choose to extend this one additional day if you wanted, he says -- for a total of 3 days AF. But more after that is not as effective in terms of this modification technique. So you should go back on the usual naltrexone routine again for some length of time and then repeat the cycle when the spirit moves you.

Eskapa says it is not strictly necessary to do this exercise. He calls it a 'supplement'. But I can see how it would really help a lot if done correctly.

Personally, I'm still at a place in my regimen where I would have a tough time making it through 3 days with no booze. Maybe in a couple of months, knock on wood.

___
Before Starting Naltrexone average per week--40-45 Units and sometimes more.
Week 1 -- Titrating up from 12.5 to 25 --29 Units
Week 2--25 mg--36 Units
Week 3 -- half week at 37.5, half week at 50 mg -- 29 Units
Note: SE's on starting dose of 25 mg so backed down to 12.5 and titrated up.
At 3.5 weeks, no SE's on 50 mg taken with a large glass of milk

I posted this link for HAMS which has some good resources for taking AF or abstinence days after one is no longer physically dependent on alcohol...

If you can get an AF day, get it. It can only help you start to form new habits and see that alcohol everyday isn't necessary.