How many AF days are too many AF days?

Here is my current thought process based on Dr. Eskapa's book. The more often you drink, the more the extinction and de-addiction process can be allowed to occur. It is not the amount we drink on a particular day, but rather that we drink something while on Naltrexone and keep repeating until the de-addiction occurs. Every once in a while, we have a couple of consecutive Alcohol Free (AF) days where we do something positive and beneficial, such as exercise, in order to rebuild a positively reinforced behavior.

The thought occurred to me today, what if I wanted an AF week? Or an AF month? I am only 8 weeks into TSM and should not be seeing any diminished amount of cravings at this point and I'm not. My drinking actually rose the past week. But I am enjoying my second AF day so much, I can hardly wait until I have another one. The thought of going back to get the "cure", is not appealing to me at the time of this post. I'm afraid that if I took an abstinent month off, that all the progress in pharmaceutical extinction I have made will be completely lost. Does it work that way or does anyone really know?

Thoughts?

Bob

Hi Bob - I think there have been several other posts along the same lines...and I admit I struggle with the answer in reality (although in other posts I'm sure I was very confident of the answer .

From a 'the way it works' point of view, not drinking will not undo anything. If you are far enough along to want to be AF and to be able to do it without issue, then I think you go for it because that is the cure working.

However, having said that, in reality when we are not at 4 months I think it's natural to want to continue to take your medicine on a regular basis. For example, tonight I really have zero desire to drink...but I popped my pill 1/2 hour ago because I feel like I want to keep working the method. I had 3 af's last week and I want to cut a few more lanes off my superhighway, so I decided to see if I could just have 1 glass tonight. I **think** that is my practical side talking and not my addiction, but who knows?

The fact that you are thinking about sustained AF days is a breakthrough, isn't it? Well done. I say go for it if you can do it, and the beauty is if you go back to drinking with Nal, you are just continuing on with your treatment. No set backs.

Bob,

Long before TSM I decided I needed AF days, and I have made them an integral part of my "managed alcoholism". But regardless of how many AFs I have in a row, when I get back to drinking, the addiction takes over right where it left off. This is just personal conjecture, but I think that the beast waits until my willpower runs out, and then it kicks in full strength when I fail.

It is my belief, though that this also allow TSM to work its magic regardless of how many AF days I have had in a row. When I get back to it, the deconditioning continues on schedule. So I hope, anyway. So I pray.

Well it doesn't really matter does it?

Apparently TSM won't work if you suffer from chronic anxiety or mania, and are prescribed by a licensed physician and take benzos.

Firebird - I think you are right...that is what was so attractive to this method for me. I could manage AF pre sinclair but the alcohol deprivation effect would kick in and I would go back to drinking double time after stopping. Now, I don't see that happening at all..it's a distant memory. (I have not had too many AF days but I definitely, definitely notice a change now).

Bob...read your other posts as well as this one and was so sorry to see this. I doubt you are much in the mood for advice or anything else right now after reading Dr Roy's response about Benzo and interaction with TSM. However, I'm going to give you some anyway because I would truly miss your posts and I think you have made progress despite now feeling that it was a sham. [Advice Alert] PM the admins (RV or Lena) - I think they can contact Dr Roy on your behalf to get more information. I don't think he intended his answer to mean it WON'T work at all - I think he said it may hamper the effect. There is a big difference in that wording and you owe it to yourself to find out how big the difference is before declaring defeat. [/ Alert]

...that's it. Hope you change your mind by tomorrow and look into it more. More importantly, I hope your medication truly is not a deal breaker.

Best~

Bob -- WHY would you say that?? Eskapa mentioned on this board benzos may not enhance TSM, but do you really think he or Sinclair would be so cruel as to let you and others who take benzos just roll along w/ TSM if they knew or even thought you were wasting all the time and psychic energy???? Several of us on this board take benzos in various forms and for various reasons.

Please, stay the course and all will be well. Be careful about your sources. Be strong.

I started a thread about cutting down on drinking where I cite page #'s from Eskapa's book so look for that.

Take care.

Lena, I too take benzo's and the doctor did say something to the affect that it would hamper the affect. It would be nice to get a direct answer to this question since Bob and I both take benzo's on a daily basis. I only take a very small dose but need to know since I have not seen any change whatsoever except that I now drink daily and did not prior to Sinclair Method. Can it work for those of us who use these meds daily in a small dose or not? I see that Dr. Roy did address the pain meds but has not responded to this question. If it does not work for us let us know. Why hold out hope for something that will not work for us and why take medication that does have it's side affects if this is the case. I think that you correspond with him maybe you could try to find out for the rest of us. Just hoping!

I haven't mentioned this before, but I take .5 mg klonipin/day. I was tapering off from 2 mg, down to .5 mg when I started TSM. I was having success on TSM. I have talked to Dr. Eskapa about this. I hope he posts soon in more detail. Benzos can slow your progress, but "hamper" is not the same thing as precluding any hope of success.

As Dr. Eskapa mentioned elsewhere in a post, he would prefer we all taper off the benzos. The reality is not everyone can. Even if it takes longer, TSM is worth it. It's analogous to the binge drinkers. Non-daily drinking may mean it takes longer, but people do get there. Potato is an example; at six months she feels her life has totally changed.

So please hang in there, Bob and LaBear. Again, I was seeing real progress when I had to stop TSM for awhile for surgery.

A caveat to those of you who can lose the benzos and want to do so: PLEASE don't reduce too quickly, and be careful of what's out there in the way of advice for tapering off. More on this after Dr. E has posted and when I have time.

Bob, I was trying to sound concerned but reading my post it sounds stern. Sorry about that. I post because I care. You hang in there.

Lena, THANK YOU SOOOOO MUCH!!!! Your honesty is a God send to me right now. I felt that this too would not work for me. If you were seeing success and had tapered to .50mg. then I have hope. I know this is private but it means so much to hear this from you. Wishing you all the very best with this process and hope you are able to return very soon.

Thanks everyone!

I finally got to this thread after trying to catch up on unread posts for two days.

Hey, did you know that men can be disappointed, make irrational decisions, and be emotional in general? Yep, I found that out too. I was truly astounded.

Anyway, I have decided to resume TSM based on the fact that the opiate receptors are still blocked and I am performing the undesired behavior (drinking). The method should work regardless of what other meds are in the bloodstream. It just may take longer, but it still must occur.

Everyone: Please talk to me as stern as you like. Sometimes that's what it takes to get the point through my thick manly skull.

2 AF days are great! I would have done more, but my extinction would be stalled.

Love to all of you!

Bob