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 Post subject: NAL and Sex?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 9:35 am 
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I posted this in the Introductions forum and saw there was a forum just for spouses:

My wife has been on NAL for a month and a half now. She is taking the medication on a regular basis as prescribed and it has basically been a miracle to our family. I no longer have to worry about her running off binge drinking or what not, or the constant lies, etc. You all know the drill. But now she seems quite a bit more disconnected - especially when it comes to sex. She no longer initiates and doesn't even seem to enjoy it. I've been reading up on the TSM and was wondering if:

1. Is this a side effect of taking NAL?
2. Would TSM address this?

From day one I've been trying to get her to read up on TSM but she keeps on saying that the doctor knows best (it's working so why change anything).

If I had to choose between a sober wife and one that wanted to jump my bones, I would choose sober (although she still does drink on NAL, but no more binges).

Please help! Also, does anyone have links I can share with my wife that make a compelling reason to choose TSM over the prescribed, once a day routine. I can tell her over and over and the links that I'm sharing aren't doing the trick (basically the http://www.cthreefoundation.org is an advertisement).


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 Post subject: Re: NAL and Sex?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 10:17 am 
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That can be a side effect of Nal, I notice I don't have much interest in sex these days. I'm just short of 2 months in, btw.

What's you're wife's intake like currently? One of the benefits of using Nal like this is consecutive Alcohol Free days (when you don't take Nal) can be used to offer the brain a new activity that it can "learn", just as using Nal and drinking helps it "unlearn" that alcohol is desirable. On the afternoon of the 2nd day without Nal, the opioid receptors are quite sensitive (which is one reason why you never drink without Nal) and it's a prime time for healthy, endorphin-releasing activities, like eating a spicy meal, working out, going on a hike, watching a great comedy annnnnddd..... you guessed it.... sex! Now, let's see if the ladies on the board check in on this and can lend their practical experience in the matter.

Now, that's not to say you should pressure her into having an AF day when she's actually craving, as answering the craving with The Golden Rule is going to yield the quickest progress. The Alcohol Free weekend (doesn't have to be on a weekend, really) is mentioned in the book, btw.

So your wife is taking Nal daily? If she drinks daily, then that's ok. If not, that's likely to end up being a problem as noted in the book. You might want to buy/rent a copy of One Little Pill, it might pique her interest in TSM. There are TSM docs around Houston, if she would agree to see one.


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 Post subject: Re: NAL and Sex?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 7:34 pm 
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Texasflip,

I have to say that others, including myself, have complained about a lower libido, but it is worth it in the end. AF days will help; however, I do miss how alcohol effects my libido (but I missed that a long time ago, too much alcohol has the opposite effect).

Give her time, for not only is she dealing with the side effects of the nal. and the side effects of drinking on the nal, she is learning how alcohol is no longer going to control her. She will find that balance, and she will be back to normal, but it takes time.
texasflip wrote:
Also, does anyone have links I can share with my wife that make a compelling reason to choose TSM over the prescribed, once a day routine
I know when I first asked my doctor for naltrexone she told me to continue drinking until I weaned myself off alcohol. If this is what her doctor told her to do and she is obeying her doctor please have your wife watch "One little pill" as Joe suggested. C-3 is more than an advertisement, for they will help anyone that is doing TSM and that is free counseling. As far as your wife wanting to do what the doctor ordered, have her reach out to Angie that is on this site, the Option Saves Lives forum, and she also has a face book page, or have her read Angies' post on the forum. Angie did what her doctor told her and after a week or so (maybe longer), she was going crazy with cravings. Sometimes we have to educate our doctors, and our families (I had to educate mine).

On a personal note, I was unable to have an alcohol free (AF) day until I was further along into TSM and then it was only one day at a time, for I had to work up to more. Another member Maggie, had issues with AF days up to the day she felt "cured". She would force AF days because she needed them emotionally (nothing is to be forced in TSM). Also, everyone has a different "cure" time, for 3 months is a minimum, and most are 4-8 months, a few a year or longer.

I hope your wife and her doctor have an open mind.

Let us know how else we can help, maybe have her read some of the progress pages on this forum.

Jaba


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 Post subject: Re: NAL and Sex?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 6:20 am 
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Thanks for the reply Joe!

JoeSixPack wrote:
What's you're wife's intake like currently? One of the benefits of using Nal like this is consecutive Alcohol Free days (when you don't take Nal) can be used to offer the brain a new activity that it can "learn", just as using Nal and drinking helps it "unlearn" that alcohol is desirable. On the afternoon of the 2nd day without Nal, the opioid receptors are quite sensitive (which is one reason why you never drink without Nal) and it's a prime time for healthy, endorphin-releasing activities, like eating a spicy meal, working out, going on a hike, watching a great comedy annnnnddd..... you guessed it.... sex!


She takes 50mg a day, everyday, regardless of she drinks. Also, she takes it a night before sleep because it makes her tired. So by the end of the day after a long hard work day she'll take a drink and I can tell the effects of the alcohol are somewhat working (I know it doesn't keep her from getting drunk, but I can see the look in her eyes for the craving). Then I'll remind her that she needs to take her medicine which she does. From there I don't have to worry about her looking for alcohol in the middle of the night. That's what where doing so far and it's neither what her doctor recommends nor TSM. But she refuses to go to TSM. She thinks the fact that she no longer binges is good enough. But it's really start to affect our sex life amongst other things.


JoeSixPack wrote:
So your wife is taking Nal daily? If she drinks daily, then that's ok. If not, that's likely to end up being a problem as noted in the book. You might want to buy/rent a copy of One Little Pill, it might pique her interest in TSM. There are TSM docs around Houston, if she would agree to see one.


I think that's the route I'll need to take, just buy her the book. I'm really hoping she switches to TSM.


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 Post subject: Re: NAL and Sex?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 6:24 am 
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jaba wrote:
Texasflip,

I have to say that others, including myself, have complained about a lower libido, but it is worth it in the end. AF days will help; however, I do miss how alcohol effects my libido (but I missed that a long time ago, too much alcohol has the opposite effect).

Give her time, for not only is she dealing with the side effects of the nal. and the side effects of drinking on the nal, she is learning how alcohol is no longer going to control her. She will find that balance, and she will be back to normal, but it takes time.
texasflip wrote:
Also, does anyone have links I can share with my wife that make a compelling reason to choose TSM over the prescribed, once a day routine
I know when I first asked my doctor for naltrexone she told me to continue drinking until I weaned myself off alcohol. If this is what her doctor told her to do and she is obeying her doctor please have your wife watch "One little pill" as Joe suggested. C-3 is more than an advertisement, for they will help anyone that is doing TSM and that is free counseling. As far as your wife wanting to do what the doctor ordered, have her reach out to Angie that is on this site, the Option Saves Lives forum, and she also has a face book page, or have her read Angies' post on the forum. Angie did what her doctor told her and after a week or so (maybe longer), she was going crazy with cravings. Sometimes we have to educate our doctors, and our families (I had to educate mine).

On a personal note, I was unable to have an alcohol free (AF) day until I was further along into TSM and then it was only one day at a time, for I had to work up to more. Another member Maggie, had issues with AF days up to the day she felt "cured". She would force AF days because she needed them emotionally (nothing is to be forced in TSM). Also, everyone has a different "cure" time, for 3 months is a minimum, and most are 4-8 months, a few a year or longer.

I hope your wife and her doctor have an open mind.

Let us know how else we can help, maybe have her read some of the progress pages on this forum.

Jaba


Thanks so much! I do need to be more understanding. NAL is such a blessing for us, there is quite a bit of pain that alcohol has caused in our lives. Now if I can just get her to embrace TSM.


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 Post subject: Re: NAL and Sex?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 9:13 am 
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Posts: 1518
tf -

If she's not following the Golden Rule, then she's not getting the optimal protection from the Nal. Per TSM, she should take it 1 hour before she drinks and if she's still drinking 12 hours later, then she should take another and wait an hour before she continues. If she'll just follow that one rule, then she can get to a point where her choice about whether to drink or not is restored and she will have control over if, when and how much she wants to drink, just like someone who doesn't have AUD.

I don't know if she's the "online" sort, but there's another forum at:

http://optionssavelives.freeforums.net/

She could create an account there and have her own "space" as it were.

If you don't have a PDF copy of the book, we can get you one for free. The One Little Pill video is $10 as I recall. There's also a section of the book just for physicians that you can print out and give to her doc.


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 Post subject: Re: NAL and Sex?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 1:37 pm 
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Posts: 1429
Texasflip,

At first I was thinking that TSM, this forum, the Options saves lives forum and C-3 was just another gimmick, and a ploy for people to spend money on the book and the video. I would lurk on this forum and think this has to be a farce, for it is just too good to be true, but I thought (like the Atkins diet) if it did work for some, maybe it would work for me. I started the nal and TSM last May and my desire for alcohol is a 0.5 on a scale 1-10, and I no longer drink nightly.

I did a lot of research before I started. The nal does last in someone system for 24 hours and as long as she is taking 50 mg everyday she should be covered. I know that is not the TSM way, but looking back on old post when Dr. Eskapa was active on this forum he even said that Sinclair stated that as long as the endorphins are covered for 24 hours there is no need to increase a dose; however, drinking longer than a 12 hours (for the all day drinker) taking a second dose may be required. It is really depending on the how someones body metabolizes the naltrexone, for some can metabolizes faster than others. There are some that take the nal in the morning, drink later in the day and still have extinction with this process. Some have only taken 25 mg and have had success, so it does really depend of the individual. With that being said, as long as she takes her nal before she drinks she will be fine.

The problem is if she continues to take the nal without drinking, for the extinction process will not happen. And if she stops the nal because she feels she can deal with the cravings and/or no longer feels she needs it (or worse, her doctor won't write the script past a certain number of months) there is always that possibility of her turning back to alcohol. It doesn't happen to all, but it does happen to most. Just like if I would drink without the nal I would be down that alcoholic path of destruction.

Getting your wife to choose TSM over what her doctor is asking her to do may be an up hill battle. And, just like no one could persuade me into rehab or abstaining when I wasn't ready, you are not going to be able to persuade her to do TSM. You can try to educate her, and possibly even educate her doctor (if she will allow you), but she has to be willing. Maybe after a spell without alcohol and when she is no longer taking the nal, if those craving come back that would be a better time to approach her. TSM will always be here waiting for her.

Jaba


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 Post subject: Re: NAL and Sex?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 1:59 pm 
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This is some good stuff. I really do need help persuading her to research TSM. But as you said, it might be an uphill battle. Everything that you said here makes complete sense.

I will say this...the NAL has been something short of a miracle. My life for the past 4 years has been plagued with dissapointment after dissapointment. I could never even think about planning for our future because of her addiction. Just taking NAL over the past month and a half has given me hope that we can lead a fulfilling relationship. We actually went on a trip together two weeks ago that didn't have a drunken violent incident (prior to that we were batting 1.000).

What gets me is that through all the rehab, counselors, AA meetings, etc. NO ONE ever mentioned NAL or TSM. We had only heard about antabuse and I thought that was ridiculous. We could have been down this path so much sooner. It's not perfect still, but it looks like there is a path.

Would it be crazy for me to go into an AL-ANON meeting and preach about NAL and TSM? Has anyone ever wanted to do that... Going to an AL-ANON meeting is so depressing to me as people talk about how hopeless it is....

Sorry for the rant, it's Friday!!

Thanks everyone!


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 Post subject: Re: NAL and Sex?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 2:09 pm 
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Texasflip,

Unfortunately, they are very anti-TSM at all meeting that are 12 steps, for it rocks their boats to think about them or their spouses drinking alcohol with or without nal. You could try, but you will be squashed like a bug. There may be one person that is new that would listen, for you have to remember that it is kind of like a cult and the longer that you drink the kool-aide the more you believe what they are telling you. Besides, talking outside the realm of abstinence would be blaspheme.

I can relate to your story, for as I read how things didn't progress on your trip, it reminded me on how I would be to my husband and family. Never was a holiday or weekend without an outburst.

I am glad that naltrexone is helping your wife, even though she isn't using TSM way. And in the end that is all that truly matters.

Jaba


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 Post subject: Re: NAL and Sex?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 2:14 pm 
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Naw, it's cool, man. Rant on, that's part of what we're here for! You can always come back here and let us know how it is for you.

You might be able to pull someone aside at Al-anon, but AA'ers might shut you down from what I understand. A lot of them don't believe in pills at all, just the steps and giving yourself up to the higher power, though we've had some TSM'ers her that have had AA friends they've spoken about it with.


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