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 Post subject: Re: TSM and Baclofen
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:38 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 19, 2011 1:38 pm
Posts: 172
Pam,
I was wondering how you are doing taking the combo of nal and bac? I have been doing TSM now for over 15 months and still have a long way to go to regain control, so I am considering adding bac to my regime.

I too was taking Nordict until the questions arose regarding it's effectiveness with TSM. I recently ordered Naltima from ADC and began taking it two weeks ago. Thus far I haven't been able to notice any real difference, so I guess that the jury is still out.

Diver


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 Post subject: Re: TSM and Baclofen
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:39 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:04 pm
Posts: 26
I tried bac for a while after I thought nal wasn't working for me, but my doc wouldn't prescribe enough to do any good. I'm thinking of adding back to my nal regimen this time around, especially because it helps me sleep. Would be interested in how it's helping others, if it is.


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 Post subject: Re: TSM and Baclofen
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:33 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 12:05 pm
Posts: 325
@ Joe & spouse, congrats and thank you for posting......this is such great new to hear, especially for those of us who are just starting (again) this program.
@ Those of you taking Nal & bac......What is baclofen? Anti depressant? Seizure med? Sleeping pill? or is it specifically for cravings? I'll do a little research, but thought I'd ask here. Thanks, Keek

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Pre-TSM
20-25, 2 AF
then 10-16 3,4 AF
9/6/2015
wk 1-5AF so far


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 Post subject: Re: TSM and Baclofen
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:23 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 11:59 pm
Posts: 67
Kekede, thanks :) I think we owe to this community (and MWO). I feel like we are back from hell, thanks to nal and bac, but more importantly, to the great people in these forums without whom we wouldn`t even have heard about these miracle medicines or even if we have, we wouldn`t have the courage to go ahead.

So, in a nutshell; bac is a muscle relaxant, which has been on the market for more than 40 years I think. It`s safe but has some side effects (mainly somnolence during daytime and -ironically- some insomnia during nighttime). Also one has to be very careful and conservative increasing and reducing dose (we went up 10mg/week). Some people believe there is a `switch`, mostly at higher doses (more than 150-200mg/day, whereas the traditionally accepted daily intake has been 70-80), after which one becomes `indifferent` to alcohol. Some think this is not the case, and baclofen just takes over gradually and even lower `maintenance` doses help, but there is no `switch` per se. Anyway, according to my experience, at any dose it helps with cravings, but it takes more than that to stop drinking (will, nal, intervention in our case). With us, I`m not exactly sure whether bac helped more, or nal; but I saw improvements with both of them.

As a summary, if you can deal with the side effects, it helps a lot.

You can find great info at the MWO (My way out) forums:
http://www.mywayout.org/community/f20/


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 Post subject: Re: TSM and Baclofen
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:33 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:39 pm
Posts: 309
Thought I'd add to this thread. I got on an AF streak before I achieved extinction w/ Nal. My goal is to be mostly abstinent w/ the occasional "1 drink" event. After almost 3 months of being mostly AF (w/ about 6 1-drink events), I find I'm getting more alcohol cravings. I have some baclofen from my doctor (who refused to prescribe me naltexone (I got that from AllDayChemist)). Anyway, after just reading Olivier Ameisen's book, I've just started daily baclofen to see if that will help with the craving waves. Anyone interested if seeing if I have eventual success or failure can follow "Gotthegene's Progress" under "Weekly Progress".

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Gotthegene

Started TSM Aug 2012. Had some success but over time the Nal SEs were so awful that stopped taking Nal. Managed a 30 day (Sept 2012) and 46 day (Feb/Mar 2013) AF period which also contributed to getting drinking under control.


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 Post subject: Re: TSM and Baclofen
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:56 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:59 pm
Posts: 42
Joethelion wrote:
Kekede, thanks :) I think we owe to this community (and MWO). I feel like we are back from hell, thanks to nal and bac, but more importantly, to the great people in these forums without whom we wouldn`t even have heard about these miracle medicines or even if we have, we wouldn`t have the courage to go ahead.

So, in a nutshell; bac is a muscle relaxant, which has been on the market for more than 40 years I think. It`s safe but has some side effects (mainly somnolence during daytime and -ironically- some insomnia during nighttime). Also one has to be very careful and conservative increasing and reducing dose (we went up 10mg/week). Some people believe there is a `switch`, mostly at higher doses (more than 150-200mg/day, whereas the traditionally accepted daily intake has been 70-80), after which one becomes `indifferent` to alcohol. Some think this is not the case, and baclofen just takes over gradually and even lower `maintenance` doses help, but there is no `switch` per se. Anyway, according to my experience, at any dose it helps with cravings, but it takes more than that to stop drinking (will, nal, intervention in our case). With us, I`m not exactly sure whether bac helped more, or nal; but I saw improvements with both of them.

As a summary, if you can deal with the side effects, it helps a lot.

You can find great info at the MWO (My way out) forums:
http://www.mywayout.org/community/f20/


Excellent summing up post and it also echoes a lot of my experience too from bac. I am trying it at the same time as tsm in the past three weeks. But I am at very low dosages of 30-40mg and at times, like today, I go off it altogether. Definitely something anyone with a drinking problem should consider.


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 Post subject: Re: TSM and Baclofen
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:25 am 
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Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:04 pm
Posts: 313
Location: Midwest, USA
I'm sticking with just Nal for now. However, reading about baclofen, I see all day chemist has Liofen 25mg, under generics for baclofen. Joe, where do you get your baclofen?

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Start 1-19-2013 18/day 120/wk
MO-DailyAvg-AF
1-14-0
2-13-1
3-10-6
4-7-14
5-8-9
6-9-11
7-6-9
8-10-2
9-10-3
10-9-1
11-7-3
12-8-2
13-7-9
14-7-5
15-6?-8?


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 Post subject: Re: TSM and Baclofen
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 12:51 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:50 am
Posts: 8
Doing TSM fror 6 weeks and units were not decreasing and did not have any AF days. So, I forced myself to do two AF days in a row and exercised in the morning---wow, big adrenalene re-uptake until I tokk nal one hour before a drank. Next day my baclofen arrived and I started with 10 mg 3x a day. It was amazing---like the obsession had lifted. Now is my second AF day and will exercise tomorrow.

It seems like the selective extinction (with 2 AF days in a row) is an important part of TSM. Now I am hoping to get my units done with baclofen. Honestly, I feel like what it must be to not be an alcoholic because I am not obsessed with next drink while on baclofen.

I also use AA women's meetings to boost and social support, and the personal motivation to stop drinking. Need to rely on Higher Power on the AF days.

Progress!


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 Post subject: Re: TSM and Baclofen
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 1:54 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2015 9:35 pm
Posts: 1426
Maureen,

I am so glad you are finding what works for you. If you have the time could you start a progress page for others that are thinking about using the same combo of meds? I think it would help out future TSMers.

I am glad that obsessing thinking is gone for you, for it took me about 20 weeks to get to that point! It sounds like things are really turning around for you.

Keep posting and good luck,

Jaba


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 Post subject: Re: TSM and Baclofen
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 10:26 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:50 am
Posts: 8
After 6 weeks of TSM I added in Baclofen and in one week I have had 5AF days. I had only had one AF day in the first 6 weeks. I am finding that 5 mg in the morning works best, 10 mg at noon, and 10 mg at 4 p.m. Only side effect is slight headache and sleepiness when it starts wearing off.

I am also doing AA for social support. I have told my sponsor and my therapist and they are open minded. I know that some in AA don't approve, but I can justify it because the only requirement is the desire to stop drinking. I also think that science is a way that God is working in the world. My counselor had the most difficulty with it, but I told her that she doesn't seem to have any issues with someone who has low seratonin (depression) taking an anti-depressant to increase seratonin. GABA is also a neurotransmitter and if it is low, the survival (brain stem) part of the brain takes over if it is deficient.

My alcoholism showed up 3 years before menopause and 4 years after---now that makes sense because once estrogen drops, there is a cascading effect of seratonin, GABA, dopamine, etc.

I found out that if I take 10 mg of baclofen in the morning before I exercise, it cuts off the selective reward enhancement that comes from endorphine re-uptake. However, if I am clean at least 2 days and exercise before I take 5 mg baclofen, I get the runner's high.


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