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 Post subject: Naltrexone and sex
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:00 am 
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http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=109994

I saw this forum where the participantes, with supporting research show that orgasm frequency and intensity is magnified under the effects of naltrexone. My question is, if endorphins are produced during sex, in other words the increased endorphin pathways (forgive my ignorance of the proper lingo) created durin sex are similar to those created during the consumption of alcohol, and naltrexone blocks these opioid receptors, does that mean that having sex with naltrexone will result in the equivalent of pharmacological extinction (sensory extinction?) and you will lose interest (craving) for sex?

Scary thought!


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 Post subject: Re: Naltrexone and sex
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:36 pm 
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Scary, indeed. But I see no reason for TSMers worry about it, since we just Nal on when we're up to a binge, not sex.
Now, what I'd REALLY like to know is what exactly happens to the blocked neuro-transmitters.
I suppose they simply remain there for a certain period of time, until Naltrexone stops its effects. And when that occurs, IF neuro-transmitters are still there (they might have already been eliminated by the organism) then at that moment I can only assume that sex would really be something, since the amount of neuro-transmitters received by the GABA neuro receptors would be high!

Do you guys agree with this theory?


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 Post subject: Re: Naltrexone and sex
PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 1:11 am 
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Yes, it will result in the same extinction, which is why Sinclair recommends going off NAL on occasion and saving certain activities for when one is off NAL.

Q

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Restart TSM: July 2012 (65 units/week)

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 Post subject: Re: Naltrexone and sex
PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:24 am 
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Interesting articles, Flaco, thank you for posting. But I am hearing conflicting messages, from the research and the advice...

Lonewarrior, sorry to report that the blocked neuro-transmitters are quickly removed from the synapse, so are not really stored up. The good news is that there is "up-regulation" - the deprived neurons make more receptors. However, orgasm is a very complicated event requiring activity of both the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems and I'm not sure what these means down the road.

Any other scientists out there know the answer? And everyone else, what is your experience?

Q Are you saying no sex on Nal? What if we are accustomed to great sex every day?

Ann


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 Post subject: Re: Naltrexone and sex
PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:54 am 
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ann2435 wrote:

Q Are you saying no sex on Nal? What if we are accustomed to great sex every day?

Ann


Not at all. I was just commenting that NAL can extinguish other things right alot with AL consumption. Therefore, one should go off of Nal for 3-4 days every so often. However, I believe the topic of sex has been discussed by Dr. Eskapa and Sinclair at one point on this forum. I do know it is covered briefly in the book. From what I recall, the Docs said that there is quite alot more going on beyond endorphine releases with sex, so you aren't going to extinguish your desire for it. However, it has been stated that some don't have the same level of pleasure while on NAL as not. Personally, I couldn't tell the difference.

Where I noticed a difference was with things like adventure sports, good food, good wine (AL). While on NAL, there was just something missing with these activities.

Q

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Started TSM: February 2009 Cured: August 2009

Restart TSM: July 2012 (65 units/week)

Weekly Progress:
Units: 45, 41, 44, 53, 42, 45, 41, 42, 40, 48, 39, 27, 12, 30, 45, 35, 45, 50, 48, 50, 35, 46, 44, 56, 52, 45


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 Post subject: Re: Naltrexone and sex
PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:24 pm 
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Oh, don't be sorry at all, ann2435, in fact I'm glad for being aware of such elimination of the neuro-transmitters.
But the explanation ended up intriguing me. Since the amount of neuro-receptors is increased, how come that doesn't become a problem for the treatment itself? I mean, after some time wouldn't that demand a higher dose of Nal to keep up blocking them? :?


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 Post subject: Re: Naltrexone and sex
PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:10 pm 
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Great question, Lonewarrior. So, the nerve cell, having its receptors blocked by naltrexone, "feels" deprived of the neurotransmitter, and so puts out more receptors for them, so that next time, it will be more sensitive to the endorphins. That is up-regulation. Before I heard about TSM, I had heard about LDN - low dose naltrexone. Not for help with alcohol, but used for a way of improving mood, perhaps in depression. The idea, as I understand it, is to temporarily deprive your neurons of endorphins or endogenous opiates during the night with very small doses of naltrexone while you were asleep, so your nerve cells would up-regulate their receptors. Then, during the day, one would theoretically enjoy a higher sensitivity to these neurotransmitters or hormones... I don't have any experience with it, but an interesting theory! I am a newbie here, but I do wonder what role this plays in TSM. And what it has to do with something as complex as sex I really don't venture to speculate!

So - back to your question: I think you don't want to block your receptors entirely. Only when you have alcohol on board. So you take it when you drink, and allow it to wear off, probably during the day when you are not going to drink anyway. So the receptors don't bloom too much. This up-regulation might be, I think, one of the reasons you really don't want to drink without the naltrexone. Again, I'm new to this, but it makes sense to me.

So guess what happens when, before naltrexone, we drink for extended periods day after day - we get "down-regulation". That's why we feel shaky when we stop. The nerve cells, accustomed to alcohol, have decreased their sensitivity to it, and then when you stop drinking, they really are missing the calming effect of alcohol, and fire too readily. They become too sensitive, too irritable, so normal sounds are too loud, normal light hurts your eyes, etc. Of course this is oversimplified, and alcohol, unlike opioids and endorphin, does not actually need receptors to get into a cell, it is a small molecule that easily goes everywhere. The concept is the same. :)

This down-regulaton of receptors is exactly what does happen with tolerance to narcotics, for example, so people with chronic pain who take narcotics every day need higher and higher doses.


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 Post subject: Re: Naltrexone and sex
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:45 pm 
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Very interesting, anne2435, you say you are a newbie but you seem to have a good knowledge of the subject of brain receptors and such. I find your theories interesting I wonder if Dr. Eskapa has anything to add or correct? Keep 'em coming! and Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Naltrexone and sex
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:52 pm 
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Interesting comments about Naltrexone and its use to increase ones sensitivity to endorphines.

It has been stated in Dr. Eskapa's book and by Dr. Sinclair in this forum that Naltrexone, at least at the dose we are taking (50mg), takes 2-3 days to completely wash out of ones system. As such, we probably shouldn't count on doing anything were we want to be free of NAL until after a couple days at least.

Q

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Started TSM: February 2009 Cured: August 2009

Restart TSM: July 2012 (65 units/week)

Weekly Progress:
Units: 45, 41, 44, 53, 42, 45, 41, 42, 40, 48, 39, 27, 12, 30, 45, 35, 45, 50, 48, 50, 35, 46, 44, 56, 52, 45


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 Post subject: Re: Naltrexone and sex
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:15 am 
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If my memory serves me correctly, I think Dr. Sinclair also said that sex is more complex that just endorphin release so Naltrexone would not have such a direct effect on libido and sexual pleasure as it would on drinking. I think.

Curi

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50mg 12-16-19-24
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