It's going to be hard to keep this a reasonable length. I'm a long time lurker on MWO (2 years or so), but for the last couple months I've been on here much more frequently.

I classify myself as a heavy drinker, probably 4-8 beers (ales) a night during my bad weeks, sometimes lasting a few months before I reel it in somewhat. No blackouts, no really noticeable withdrawals except cravings when I quit for short periods, but definitely major hangovers, lost production, and mental anguish over drinking.

I've been on bac for about 2 years, mainly staying at lowish doses of 40-60mg. A few months ago I decided to quit kicking the can and ramp up to high doses, in the hopes of hitting the switch. I got to about 75 mg and ran out. Went through 10 days of hell, got more bac, and proceeded to ramp up to about 150mg. I followed the rules and went up slowly, 10mg every 4 or 5 days, but must have gone up too fast one day and again went through hell, this time 4 or 5 days where I wasn't sure I would feel normal again. Meanwhile I had finally managed to read Dr. Ameisen's book, which to me was very weak, or at least not what I expected. I had enough. Taking handfulls of pills and the constant monitoring of my mental state was just too much. To top it off, I found myself wanting a drink even more just to smooth over the side effects!

So I started titrating down on bac and reading up on NAL. This time I read The Cure for Alcoholism right away. To me this method just makes more sense. Block your endorphins, take some of the fun out of drinking, and you stop wanting to drink so much!

So at this point I'm almost 3 weeks in on the NAL and down to 30-40mg of baclofen. For some reason I can't seem to drop the bac completely. I think it's anxiety and a stressful job, though it could just be the thought of taking something to smooth out the day. It's not exactly a good feeling. Bac has always had a strange effect, a contradictory anxious/calming sensation. It's especially noticeable when I first wake up in the morning.

Before I started NAL I went AF for about 10 days, after a particularly heavy night. I also quit tobacco. I started with 25mg the first 6 times I drank and noticed a huge drop in my interest in alcohol. Now I'm taking 50 and coming out of the honeymoon phase, but so far I really believe in this method. It's hard to describe, but feels like just what I needed.

I'm not sure if taking 50 is doing any more for me than the 25, other than giving me more of a dazed out feeling. I remember reading about someone successful at a very low dose, so I'd be curious to hear from people who have been successful at a lower dose than 50. If nothing else I'd save a few bucks.

For what it's worth, for anyone on the fence about using baclofen or Nal, I would highly recommend starting with Nal. It's just far easier to follow the program. Taking a lot of baclofen is a frightening experience that requires months of intense climbing to reach an uncertain plateau.

Pre Nal: 30-40 US units
Week 1: 8/4AF
Week 2: 13/2AF

Hi friedchickn! Welcome.
I'm very new here too and I have hope in TSM as well.
I am glad you have hope for that is essential to any amount of success.
Believe in the process and it will be sure to work.

I can absolutely identify with the constant monitoring of my mental state being too much. It's like, why can't I just be normal? But what is normal anyway? LOL maybe someday the both of us will find out. Maybe I can give some advice to you and try to relax about the state of our minds and then go ahead and take that advice myself.

Anyway, keep posting; I definitely look forward to reading and staying up to date on your progress. I'm sure if you want things to get better, they will. I need to remember that too.

Have a wonderful day!
Carli

Welcome fried chickn.

First I want to remark on how strong a person you must be: you quit drinking for 10 days before starting Nal AND you gave up tobacco? That's fantastic. If you can do that, you can do this.

The thing you will need the most just starting out is patience. You may be a fast responder, but if you are like most of it, this takes time to work, and it often takes more time than the book says. I am six months in and still not where I want to be, but I can now feel that miracles are happening for me. I bet you they will happen for you too. But you must be patient.

As for the low dose, my advice is to try to get up to 50 mg and stay there until you feel you have AL well under control. Until you are where you want to be. In the meantime you can research low dose nal and then perhaps to be ready when the time comes. As I said, I am six months in and I would not vary from the 50 mg dose, personally, until I am in much better shape than I am right now. One step at a time.

But welcome, keep posting, look forward to hearing about your progress. XOXO Newlife

Hi, chicken.
I'm the contrary one on this forum. I think a lot of the people on TSM would be better off at lower levels. When I espoused this, several successful oldtimers here admitted to doing just fine at 12.5mg. The problem I have with 50mg is the shutting down of opoid receptors for 24 hrs if you aren't drinking for 24 hrs. You need your endorphins. A lot of us are endorphin deficient to begin with. Research, research. Naltrexone, LDN, ULDN, Endorphin deficiency and alcoholism, LDN and Alcoholism, ULDN with Oxycodone, etc.
When you are reasonably sure you have accomplished phamacological extinction it is wise in MY HUMBLE NON-PROFESSIONAL OPINION to at least cut way down. Read more. Tell me what you think.

Steve

Hi Chicken

I'm a sort of old timer and I kept at 50mg right up until I quit alcohol for good.

I did have one or two sessions at 25mg and didn't notice a difference, if I remember rightly I actually noticed my drinks increased, and not wanting to risk any reversal I kept on at 50mg. I used TSM/Nal for just over 2 years, cure came at the 6 month point but I noticed improvements right from the first time I used TSM. Like you I also had 7 days AF right at the start and I was also like you, coming off high dose baclofen to use TSM for pretty similar reasons.

I found as I went along and chose to give myself more and more AF days, that the covering endorphins thing really wasn't an issue. It was only an issue if I drank more than 1 or 2 days in a row - so my fix was to decrease drinking days.

I did continue with 10-20mg baclofen each evening thinking it helped me to sleep. I have recently started using 10mg baclofen again, and have found no real difference - ok at first it gave me a dead sleep instead of getting up several times in the night, but since I had some nights without it I've noticed I can get that dead sleep without baclofen once I'm tired and calm enough - basically I think I'm trying to iron over the normal, healthy ups and downs of life and the human body!

I hope you stay with us.

Wow, thanks for the responses everyone! I wasn't expecting that.

Steven, in your opinion, does taking less shut down your endorphin receptors for less time, or shut down less of them? Or both? Does that make sense? It seems to me logically that you would shut down less receptors, but the length of efficacy would remain the same.

UKBlonde, I think that's the same reason I can't seem to drop the bac completely. I don't feel too bad about that low of a dose, but I would like to drop it eventually. Baby steps.

Thanks again, its nice to get some encouragement.

Supposedly..theoretically..more Nal = more time covered. The research that really turned my head around on this subject was the use of LDN at 4mg to shut down receptors for 3-4 hrs. And the very new use of ULTRA low dose Nal (.02mg) in combination with Oxycodone to give pain relief without addiction. It is powerful stuff! Not much research available on Low dose and alcoholism. Please come to your own conclusions, however. I am just an inmate and take responsibility for only my own personal experimentation. And you are always welcome to pm me.
Steve.

Welcome friedchickn (that name makes me laugh). I have never tried Bac - I was on the MWO site for a good few years under a different name - and started Nal in January. I am still not to where I want to be but as newlife says - we just have to keep going. It is taking way longer than the book suggests, for me, but there is NO alternative so I keep on going - I am slowly lowering my intake and I know I will get there in the end. Bac always frightened me and I would never even try it - re the 50 mg of Nal and what Steve said - I would be scared to go down until I know that I am 'there' for want of a better word - I do understand and agree with the LDN for other things , but for me, while I am still drinking, I will keep up with the 50mg and on the days that I do not drink, I do take LDN at bedtime. Steve has done his homework and knows what he is talking about ....

Hugs, Maggie

Yum, fried chicken...you have my cholesterol levels going up just thinking about it.

I wanted to welcome you as well. I am in agreement with Maggie, Bac. sounded frightening and nal. at a lower dose maybe for maintenance once I have achieved my goals. The side effects will dissipate with time. I will sometimes still get that spacey feeling when I take the nal., but I think it might be from how much I drank the night before.

Maybe with less bac. in your system the dazed out feeling will go away (just a thought).

Wishing you much success

Jaba

Yes, I do think the bac has something to do with the dazed out feeling, but it's tough to tell which one is doing what. Either way, a small price to pay in the long run.

Glad to be here!