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 Post subject: Re: Naltrexone and Wellbutrin = appetite supressant?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 11:11 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2015 9:35 pm
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Ben,

ObnoxiousNoMore wrote:
Receptors are not hypersensitive forever after discontinuing NAL. So while there is a period that negative reinforcers should be avoided it does diminish.


That is an interesting fact, which I did not know. Do you mind posting the link, for this intrigues me.

I guess it does make sense, for you body and brain will only produce more receptors when blocked and if no longer blocked they will go back to normal.

I did not find that in all the research that I had done; however, when I did research, I wasn't looking into how long the receptors will be hypersensitive, so I could have very easily overlooked it.

Jaba


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 Post subject: Re: Naltrexone and Wellbutrin = appetite supressant?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 1:22 pm 
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Jaba,

The Cure for Alcoholism, Roy D. Eskapa.
Page 120 of the book is where he discusses it. He again discusses it I. The last section for medical professionals. For so.e reason , I cannot copy the text from my phone, but that is where I read it

Ben

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 Post subject: Re: Naltrexone and Wellbutrin = appetite supressant?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 1:24 pm 
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That being said... It is very general in nature. That is on of my complaints about the book. But that was my jumping off spot. I'll try to post some supporting info in the next few days.

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 Post subject: Re: Naltrexone and Wellbutrin = appetite supressant?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 2:02 pm 
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OMG,

That shows you how much I retain what I read. How embarrassed am I? :oops:

I have a habit of remember trivial crap that people look at you cockeyed for knowing...I guess it is that time in my life to reread the book.

Thats for that,

Jaba


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 Post subject: Re: Naltrexone and Wellbutrin = appetite supressant?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:15 pm 
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ObnoxiousNoMore wrote:

Second.... While I understand the process of extinction, positive reinforcement, and the importance of random, intermittent rewards, there is more here. Receptors are not hypersensitive forever after discontinuing NAL. So while there is a period that negative reinforcers should be avoided it does diminish.

Ben


I'm not sure I'm following you. Do you mean a period of avoiding positive reinforcers?

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Nal started briefly Sept 16 2015, but for health reasons Mr. Truffle currently chooses abstinence

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 Post subject: Re: Naltrexone and Wellbutrin = appetite supressant?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 7:05 pm 
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I am stating that after being off NAL that endorphin receptors are hypersensitive for say 1 to 4 days.... I don't know the exact number. That depends on how much NAL was in the system.... This is why I only take a half pill if I am only drinking g a couple of hours.

During that time endorphin. Producing behaviors will be EXTRA reinforced. So one should consider engaging in positive behaviors and should seriously avoid negative behaviors..aka drinking, drugging, child molestation.... Or whatever. You get the point.

But those receptors do return to normal unless NAL is again added and the cycle continues.

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 Post subject: Re: Naltrexone and Wellbutrin = appetite supressant?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 7:40 pm 
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Ah I think I see what you mean.

Just to clarify, a positive reinforcer is the reward for a behavior, which will cause that behavior to be repeated in hopes of the reward.

A negative reinforcer is the ending of something unpleasant, often called "release of pressure." If I keep poking you until you move away, and then the poking stops, you have been negatively reinforced to move away. Next time I poke you, you learn to move away faster to avoid the pressure. (Assuming you don't deck me. ;) )

(Aside: Most people think negative reinforcement=punishment, but it isn't the same thing in behavioral terms. One of the many confusing things about behavioral terms. :roll: )

Quote:
Receptors are not hypersensitive forever after discontinuing NAL. So while there is a period that negative reinforcers should be avoided, it does diminish.


I was confused because I think maybe you said reinforcer when you meant behavior in the above quote? Exercise, etc you are calling positive behaviors. Drugging etc you are calling negative behaviors. So you are using the words positive and negative as values, rather than to describe reinforcers.

If so, you are saying that while the receptors are supersensitive and presumably strongly rewarding any behavior that takes place in that state, then negative BEHAVIORS should be avoided so that they are not positively reinforced.

Am I getting it right?

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Mrs. Truffle is an animal trainer and behavioral science geek.

Mr. Truffle Pre Nal - 119/wk
Nal started briefly Sept 16 2015, but for health reasons Mr. Truffle currently chooses abstinence

(All forum posts by Mrs. T)


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 Post subject: Re: Naltrexone and Wellbutrin = appetite supressant?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:11 pm 
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Yes... You are correct.. I used the wrong term.... I was really tired when I wrote that.

Yes, reinforcements whether positive or negative will increase the likelihood of a behavior. Punishment is always (I believe) after a behavior and is meant to decrease....I struggle with positive and negative punishment.... Hard to sometimes tell the difference. I get that negative punishment is taking away something someone wants and positive punishment is adding something they don't want... ...but still sometime hard to distinguish..... Ahh... My old teaching/Sociology/Psychology days. ;)

Antabuse would be an example of positive punishment correct? Adding something some one does not want.... terrible nausea.... after a behavior....drinking....in hopes of reducing future episodes of drinking.... It gets damn confusing.

Ben

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ObnoxiousNoMore
Pre-TSM not tracked up of 85 a week
TSM started 9/24/2015
W1:78.33
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3:57.93
4:40.66, 1AF
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6:34.74
7:26.31
8: 47.97
9: 65.19
10:63.17
11:64.02
12:79
13:48.82
14:52.31
15:46.06
16:33.38, 1 AF
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18:28.69


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 Post subject: Re: Naltrexone and Wellbutrin = appetite supressant?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 9:05 am 
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Posts: 14
Just seen this posted. I've never been on Wellbutrin but can tell you that for me when I was on Nalrexone first time back in 2012 my appetite dropped quite a bit. Not sure how much the reduction in drinking had to do with it but I definitely wan't eating as much. I remember getting my Sunday dinners (big thing in my country) and never being able to finish them and having take smaller portions. I also remember saying to my mum that it felt like my stomach had shrunk.

I've since been on other anti craving meds like Baclofen and Campral which didn't have this effect and I for the life of my could not shift weight. On both of these I actually put it on. Also couldn't orgasm but that's another story :D ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Naltrexone and Wellbutrin = appetite supressant?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:26 pm 
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Posts: 74
Location: SoCal, USA
As far as appetite supressant, I have lost 55 lbs. in a year while taking Prozac (which I have taken for 15 years) and receiving Vivitrol injections. My drinking is finally under control and I feel better physically. My Dr. says he has had other patients claim to be losing weight but not as much as mine. I would like to lose another 10 lbs and I'll be at my goal weight.
I have been lucky, my insurance has paid for my injections, but we are changing providers in January and unsure what will happen then . If they will not pay for the once a month injection, I'll go back to the pill form of Naltrexone.
Movergal


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